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Are my cigars dyed?
youngryan216
Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭
5 Vegas Maduro. Partagas Black. Rocky Patel The Edge: These are smokes I have enjoyed in the past, but I have some questions....
I smoke cigars because they are delicious. But, part of the joy of lighting up a big glorious stogie and herfin' to the nub is knowing that my smoke comes from pure tobacco and water. I don't want any added oils or dye with my cigar experience. I want to taste the soil where the cigar came from, the spice the fermentation process has amplified or sweetened, the special balance of various tobaccos in the blend, and the wrapper that was selected based on its ability to grow thick and beautiful.
If ANYONE has any info about dyed wrappers or cigar makers that dye their product, please share it with your brothers.
If you watch the video of the Rocky Patel factory tour on Youtube, theres a two or three second clip when the torcidores are making the Decade and The Edge wrappers where it appears that the leaf is being coated with some kind of oil. Is this "dye"? If not, it was a very viscous looking substance, and it was not gum of acacia or the sugar-based paste used for the bands.
I love Rocky Patel, Partagas and 5 Vegas and I really hope that the reason Rocky was trying to keep the FDA away was because he was trying to protect our freedoms. But it makes a lot of sense that he wouldn't want consumers to know his company was adding secret cosmetic ingredients to his product.
Now, this is just something I have been thinking about recently, and is in no way an indictment of any one cigar maker. However, I think that consumers have the right to know exactly what they are spending their hard earned money on.
Let's talk.
I smoke cigars because they are delicious. But, part of the joy of lighting up a big glorious stogie and herfin' to the nub is knowing that my smoke comes from pure tobacco and water. I don't want any added oils or dye with my cigar experience. I want to taste the soil where the cigar came from, the spice the fermentation process has amplified or sweetened, the special balance of various tobaccos in the blend, and the wrapper that was selected based on its ability to grow thick and beautiful.
If ANYONE has any info about dyed wrappers or cigar makers that dye their product, please share it with your brothers.
If you watch the video of the Rocky Patel factory tour on Youtube, theres a two or three second clip when the torcidores are making the Decade and The Edge wrappers where it appears that the leaf is being coated with some kind of oil. Is this "dye"? If not, it was a very viscous looking substance, and it was not gum of acacia or the sugar-based paste used for the bands.
I love Rocky Patel, Partagas and 5 Vegas and I really hope that the reason Rocky was trying to keep the FDA away was because he was trying to protect our freedoms. But it makes a lot of sense that he wouldn't want consumers to know his company was adding secret cosmetic ingredients to his product.
Now, this is just something I have been thinking about recently, and is in no way an indictment of any one cigar maker. However, I think that consumers have the right to know exactly what they are spending their hard earned money on.
Let's talk.
ISO Ramrod and Ron Mexico
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http://www.cigar.com/cs/forums/1/319340/ShowThread.aspx
I'll bump it too.
I was very sad to learn that the maker of some of my favorite cigars has been nicknamed "El Pintor" a.k.a "The Painter" as in, he paints his "maduros".
I think we can fix this.
I think that we as consumers, should return to referencing maduro as a flavor and type of fermentation done on specific leaves i.e. PA Broadleaf, San Andres etc.
However, over time people have come to see maduro as a color and that is completely backwards.
I also think that we should start some sort of campaign that cigar manufacturers can be a part of to inform smokers on exactly what is being used on their cigars.
Maybe a small, universal label on cigar boxes that says "only water" or "all natural", maybe the campaign could be called "Naked Cigars" and every company that participates gets listed on a website to prove their products are unaltered by foreign substances. I dont' know for sure, but something needs to be done, and we are the ones who have to do it. The cigar companies are obviously not coming forward. I'll draft a petition. I'll do whatever needs to be done to keep this evil away from this beautiful tradition we all enjoy.
Would anyone here or by extension, anyone you know, be interested in signing a petition to get cigar makers to reveal if they dye their products or not?
Maybe the FDA regulation is a good thing . . . I just don't want to see small companies wiped out by their own cooperation costs, or my $4 sticks to suddenly be $10.
Fight with me.
If you watch the video, there's clearly a bowl of some type of oil during the factory tour that a roller is spreading over the entire leaf. Watch this video. Start at the 21 minute mark. Rocky Patel Factory Footage
Just 5 or 6 seconds before the 22 minute mark look at the thickness of the substance applied to the leaf. It is thick and sticky like oil.
The only possible explanation is that the water had become oily from the mixing of tobacco oils with the water over time.
I have read an account of someone who took a RP factory tour and witnessed a "washing station" where cigars were being touched up before boxing.
F.y.i. jd50ae I know the difference between cap gum and oil. I smoke Hemmingway's and Fuente rollers are very liberal with the gum. Also, I do not buy cigars that need to be "repaired" nor would I put a foreign substance on them. That's exactly why I started this thread -- to NOT have extra stuff on my 'gars.
Again, not an indictment of Rocky. Trust me, I want to keep smoking RP's and I want to keep believing he is the coolest guy on the planet. I just want the truth.
The only cigar I like from "El Pintor" is the Champagne Anny, so I don't think I have to worry about the dyes from him.
I am probably less likely to purchase a cigar I know or suspect is dyed. I would absolutely want to know with what it was dyed. I'm already taking on a certain amount of risk by smoking. I suspect there's a lot more "color adjusting" done than I'd like to think, but in the end, I'm not really all that worried about it.
I like Oliva and Quesada (including Regius) a lot. I will smoke anything, though.
No petition or FDA needed... vote with your dollars. You hear of a company doing something you don't like, the spread the word and stop buying it. If enough people care and join you in finding other products, you better believe companies will change. Even if they don't, I guarantee you can find a great maduro that isn't dyed.
There is also a debate on the actual maduro process. Is steaming or speedig up the process cheating? Many believe the quicker process produces an inferior maduro wrapper. You also get a darker, more even leaf with the speedy process (I think).
No, seriously. "I've already seen that video." "I've already read that." "I know the difference between cap gum and oil." You could actually be more knowledgeable than any of us replying to your post, but how about showing a slight bit of appreciation for those who show an interest in your thread and are trying to be helpful? Hmm? Instead of your apparent cigar snob attitude?
Oh, by the way, no one accused you of buying beat up cigars in need of wrapper repairs. Sometimes cigars need repair. Surely you know this. Don't you? And no "foreign substances" are commonly used to repair them. Unless you assume we are using elmer's or gorilla glue.
i see you are from cleveland. im in akron. we should get our herf on some time.
it is probably water that has been steeped with tobacco remnants. this does a few things, only one of them is adding color to the leaf. the biggest reason for this water is to make the wrapper leaf more pliable so it can be added to the cigar without breaking. this is actually a fairly common practice. the liquid is dark because maduro wrappers have a tendency to bleed their color quite a bit and this color gets on the hands of the people rolling the cigars. they then dip their hands in the water to get the leaf wet and the water turns color. this isnt really a dye in the way many assume it to be. it can add color but the color isnt the issue.
the real issue is if the leaf has been fermented correctly. if it has not then then that water is a dye for color. but if the leaf is fermented it is a dye in an accidental sort of way. its about flavor. if the leaf is not fermented correctly it will not taste like a maduro. if it is fermented correctly then the color being added will just even out the hue. I dont really have a problem with that extra color if the leaf is fermented correctly unless it is staining my fingers and lips.
there are not any reputable cigar companies that dye cigars to pull a fast one. those guys get outed fast and you can taste a difference. there are reputable cigar companies that will even out the color of a wrapper for aesthetic reasons, and frankly i have zero issue with that.
well... i just told you the truth.
you make the decision.
if you have a problem with dark tobacco water on your dark tobacco cigars, then so be it. most companies dont dye cigars. consumers know and can taste it. they go under fast or change their ways.
mountains of molehills.
you are right about the evenness of the color in the short cut.
a good maduro will have some color variation. it will not look uniform. the leaf will have some lighter spots and some darker. look at an LFD ligero Maduro. thats a "true" maduro with a good amount of color variation.
Who's with me?!!! Let's GO! AHHHHhhhhhh,
Bob your the best! Speaking of such, any one want to share Bob Luken's address. It's time I introduce my self
But, I never think about such things whilst lighting up. You can't possibly smoke anything if you do.
800
Sound like the numbers of the new address?
I've never looked into it, so I can't be certain ---- but I'd be inclined to think that the EPA has international programs, especially with NAFTA & CAFTA members.
As long as the cigar smokes well and tastes good, I could care less if they used dyes to even out the color.
I couldn't agree more with what Kuzi said a couple posts back, especially this part:
* I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *