http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/us/politics/top-gop-donors-seek-greater-say-in-senate-races.html?_r=0

Top Republican donors have had enough of the far right nutters, and it looks like the Tea Party is in for a rocky road. Please God, let it be so. IMO, this is the best news the Republican party could have at this time. If it does not moderate itself, it will become disfunctional and that is not good for the country as a whole.

Let me preface this by saying I like the Tea Party; they shook up the establishment and really woke up the fiscally conservative wing of the party. I'd like to see them continue shaking things up

That said, they blow at picking Senate candidates. Repubs lost at least 4 seats, potentially 5-6 seats in the past two Senate races because their candidates were bat sh!t nuts. Akin, O'Donnel, etc.

To add insult to injury, they've no idea how to play the Washington game. Boehner was playing chess with Obama over the debt ceiling, his proposed bill to raise taxes on only millionaires was genius and would've put Obama in a bind, since he couldn't very well veto a bill for the millionaires he explicitly campaigned against, but it was killed by the tea party House members who only know how to play checkers.

Tea Party need to regroup and start thinking strategy; the anger needs to go away and give way to cool headed thinking. The new House plan to extend the debt ceiling in exchange for something Harry Reid and the Dems couldn't possibly refuse, a budget for the first time in over 1,000 days/4 years, was brilliant, a chess move that will force the Dems to take a vote and a stand on where they think taxes oughtta be vs the current empty rhetoric spewing out

Bottom line, TP needs to learn how to play the game to become dangerous, otherwise they're gonna get rolled again and again

IMO, this is the best news the Republican party could have at this time. If it does not moderate itself, it will become disfunctional and that is not good for the country as a whole.

If you're being honest, you can't tell me that Obama and his Senate dems are moderates by any stretch of the imagination. Nancy Pelosi forced the Blue Dog Dems to walk the plank with their Obamacare votes, and they paid for it in the 2010 elections, which wiped out all the Dem moderates and only left those from safe, deeply liberal, districts in power

Clintons Third Way political ideas have fallen from favor in the Dem party, giving way to the Schumer and Pelosi types who, like Obama, only want to "win", without being open to any kind of compromise. For more evidence, witness their demagoguery over the debt ceiling - the Treasury takes in enough money daily to pay for 60% of Government, which includes debt payments (Treas. takes in 6x more daily then they need to make debt payments, actually), SS, medicare/aid, and troop salaries. The only thing a debt ceiling showdown would've resulted in is maybe a few national parks closing - any delay in the SS checks would've been because Obama ordered the Treasury to delay them

The simple fact is, neither party has a moderate wing anymore. The Dems purged their moderates over the course of the past 4-6 years, the Repubs purged theirs over the past 2-3 years

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Question, challenge, and always keep a fresh battery in your bullshit detector

I want to be candid with you, for candor is a compliment, it speaks of trust and assumes good faith.

xmacro:

Let me preface this by saying I like the Tea Party; they shook up the establishment and really woke up the fiscally conservative wing of the party. I'd like to see them continue shaking things up

That said, they blow at picking Senate candidates. Repubs lost at least 4 seats, potentially 5-6 seats in the past two Senate races because their candidates were bat sh!t nuts. Akin, O'Donnel, etc.

To add insult to injury, they've no idea how to play the Washington game. Boehner was playing chess with Obama over the debt ceiling, his proposed bill to raise taxes on only millionaires was genius and would've put Obama in a bind, since he couldn't very well veto a bill for the millionaires he explicitly campaigned against, but it was killed by the tea party House members who only know how to play checkers.

Tea Party need to regroup and start thinking strategy; the anger needs to go away and give way to cool headed thinking. The new House plan to extend the debt ceiling in exchange for something Harry Reid and the Dems couldn't possibly refuse, a budget for the first time in over 1,000 days/4 years, was brilliant, a chess move that will force the Dems to take a vote and a stand on where they think taxes oughtta be vs the current empty rhetoric spewing out

Bottom line, TP needs to learn how to play the game to become dangerous, otherwise they're gonna get rolled again and again

IMO, the Tea Party is not interested in governing, they are interested in destroying the government, and behaving like right wing talk show hosts. They are an exercise in nhilistic behavior, not in deliberative governing. Our form of government requires compromise, and the Tea Party is not interested in that.

^ I added a few more things into my original post which address this

JDH:

IMO, the Tea Party is not interested in governing, they are interested in destroying the government, and behaving like right wing talk show hosts. They are an exercise in nhilistic behavior, not in deliberative governing. Our form of government requires compromise, and the Tea Party is not interested in that.

But to address this a bit more, the Dems aren't interested in governing either; they're only interested in preserving the entitlement State, knowing full well it can't possibly be supported for more than another 20 years or so. SS, Medicare/aid - they can't survive as they are, there isn't enough money in existence to pay for the promises made, but you'd never know it listening to their press releases

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Question, challenge, and always keep a fresh battery in your bullshit detector

I want to be candid with you, for candor is a compliment, it speaks of trust and assumes good faith.

IMO, the loss of moderates inboth parties is not onlydangerous, but has broken the political structure of Congress. Compromise is not a dirty word, our Republic will not function without it.

Agree with this. Both parties purged their moderates for ideological purity, and now they're left with people who aren't willing to work with the other side, partly out of ideology, and partly because they aren't old enough to haven seen the Senate and House work together. The current crop grew up in the raucousness of the 60's and 70's, never seeing or experiencing how the old timers worked together and got things done.

To be honest, this is mostly the bases fault - they pushed put moderates and only wanted 100% agreement on everything. People themselves have moved to the extremes, and the political parties have responded to their constituents

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Question, challenge, and always keep a fresh battery in your bullshit detector

I want to be candid with you, for candor is a compliment, it speaks of trust and assumes good faith.

xmacro:

Agree with this. Both parties purged their moderates for ideological purity, and now they're left with people who aren't willing to work with the other side, partly out of ideology, and partly because they aren't old enough to haven seen the Senate and House work together. The current crop grew up in the raucousness of the 60's and 70's, never seeing or experiencing how the old timers worked together and got things done.

To be honest, this is mostly the bases fault - they pushed put moderates and only wanted 100% agreement on everything. People themselves have moved to the extremes, and the political parties have responded to their constituents

We see the world very differently, and therefore we have drawn different conclusions regarding the problems in/with Congress.

Everyone has their own mental map, their own prism that they view reality through. Lots of things we'll never agree on, and that History will have to judge who's right and who's wrong

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Question, challenge, and always keep a fresh battery in your bullshit detector

I want to be candid with you, for candor is a compliment, it speaks of trust and assumes good faith.

This is a great discussion between folks with different view points but a lot of common sense. And you carried it out without threating to leave the forum. (This still baffles me that you can leave some place when you aren't physically there.) Anyway, thanks for this discussion. Sure would be nice if our elected representatives could function like this.

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Gun control is a steady hand.

ctschirgi:

This is a great discussion between folks with different view points but a lot of common sense. And you carried it out without threating to leave the forum. (This still baffles me that you can leave some place when you aren't physically there.) Anyway, thanks for this discussion. Sure would be nice if our elected representatives could function like this.

Eh? When did I threaten to leave? Or did I miss a reference?

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Question, challenge, and always keep a fresh battery in your bullshit detector

I want to be candid with you, for candor is a compliment, it speaks of trust and assumes good faith.

The "Tea Party" has all but destroyed my Republican Party. I am all for political diversity, but the GOP should never tolerated the Tea Party. Far better that they be an independent party then we could really see how popular their views are (no so much I'd bet).

ctschirgi:

This is a great discussion between folks with different view points but a lot of common sense. And you carried it out without threating to leave the forum. (This still baffles me that you can leave some place when you aren't physically there.) Anyway, thanks for this discussion. Sure would be nice if our elected representatives could function like this.

Agree 100% with you there. Around here people mostly 'agree to disagree' and try to keep the usual ad hominem and baiting you see too often on other such forums out of it (or at least to not respond to it when it occurs).

Unlike, say, another 'politically neutral-hobby related forum' whose moderators rescinded my posting privileges to their general discussion area because they didn't agree with my political statements (yet had no problem letting those who agreed with theirs post whatever they liked, including some of the worst racist, anti-semitic and scarily sexist stuff I've even seen online).


Best sign of the civility of this place is that people will trade cigars with people with whom they share absolutely nothing else!

This is from their website. Exactly what part of it scares you?


The Tea Party is a grassroots movement that calls awareness to any issue which challenges the security, sovereignty, or domestic tranquility of our beloved nation, the United States of America. From our founding, the Tea Party represents the voice of the true owners of the United States: WE THE PEOPLE. Many claim to be the founders of this movement; however, it was the brave souls of the men and women in 1773, known today as the Boston Tea Party, who dared to defy the greatest military might on earth. We are the beneficiaries of their courage.

The Tea Party includes those who possess a strong belief in the foundational Judeo-Christian values embedded in our great founding documents. We believe the responsibility of our beloved nation is etched upon the hearts of true American Patriots from every race, religion, national origin, and walk of life sharing a common belief in the values which made and keep our beloved nation great. This belief led to the creation of the modern-day Tea Party.

Many Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, and Independents identify with the premises set forth by the Tea Party Movement, which is striking a chord and ringing true with the American Spirit.

We stand by the Constitution as inherently conservative. We serve as a beacon to the masses that have lost their way, a light illuminating the path to the original intentions of our Founding Fathers. We must raise a choir of voices declaring America must stand on the values which made us great. Only then will the politically blind see and deaf hear!

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" A good cigar, no matter the cost, is an investment in one's mental health "
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raisindot:

ctschirgi:

This is a great discussion between folks with different view points but a lot of common sense. And you carried it out without threating to leave the forum. (This still baffles me that you can leave some place when you aren't physically there.) Anyway, thanks for this discussion. Sure would be nice if our elected representatives could function like this.

Best sign of the civility of this place is that people will trade cigars with people with whom they share absolutely nothing else!

Yea, but a cigar is worth a lot more than a political opinion any day of the week.

xmacro:

ctschirgi:

This is a great discussion between folks with different view points but a lot of common sense. And you carried it out without threating to leave the forum. (This still baffles me that you can leave some place when you aren't physically there.) Anyway, thanks for this discussion. Sure would be nice if our elected representatives could function like this.

Eh? When did I threaten to leave? Or did I miss a reference?

Just refercening past posts/discussions. Nothing personal intended.

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Gun control is a steady hand.