clearlysuspect:

I want a candidate who is conservative on the national budget and the programs, doesn't cut national defense funding, and is liberal on the moral issues. I'm pretty much a Republican, but I'm not because a woman's right to choose and gay rights are very important to me. As long as the Republican Party sides on their side of the fence on those issues, I'm not voting republican. It's really as simple as that for me.

check out the libertarian party.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

I have been thinking a lot lately about the amount of government spending and how out of hand it has gotten, and it occured to me that the government bailing everyone out has really killed the charitable nature of people in our country. I started doing some research on this and actually found an interesting story. In 1887 Congress passed a bill to help Texas farmers who were fighting a severe drought. This bill would have given these farmers much more money than they could have ever dreamed of getting from their crops. But a very wise man, and Democrat, Grover Cleveland vetoed the Bill. In his statement he made afterward he said this:

"The Friendliness and charity or our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of a paternal care on the part of the Government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood."

That was a very wise and well spoken statement and the best part... He was 100% right! The citizens character and brotherhood he spoke of shined through and private donations were made that equaled more than 10 times the amount he had vetoed in the Bill from Congress. Now that is pretty damn impressive. Of course it wasn't long before he left office and Teddy Rosevelt cam in and things have pretty much been down hill ever since. The governments role in "taking care of us all," has done nothing but increase and our charitable character went out the window...

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For the best news and political commentary check out our new website. We have podcasts posted and new blogs from Nick and Jay on the way!

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This is too true... Whenever I see someone in need now, the first thing I think is, with all the programs out there you're begging me for money. It's not that you need help, you're just lazy.
It's the first place I go mentally, and it's not that I'm relying on the government but that I no longer believe the individual.

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I am the rocks of eternal shore: Crash against me and be broken!~ En Sabah Nur

stephen_hannibal:

.... it's not that I'm relying on the government but that I no longer believe the individual.

I highly relate to this statement.

For me, I think it goes further. I simply believe that there are so many more opportunities these days for individuals to succeed if they simply want to do the right things and make the right decisions. There are plenty of non-government organizations out there who are willing to help a homeless man get his life back together. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bums taking advantage of these charitable organizations.

puro... thats a good though you have started there.

do you have any more info? i would lover to read more on this.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

its funny I was just having this discussion at work, wish I had this reference then, oh well ill show him tommorrow

kuzi16:

puro... thats a good though you have started there.

do you have any more info? i would lover to read more on this.

Well do a little research on old Grover. He was very interesting. I read about him shooting down somebody asking for more money to build a better looking Post Office so it would look right with the rest of the growing town... Let's just say that didn't go over well. He seemed to understand the fact that the governments job was to protect the rights of the individual and nothing more. My favorite quote of his was "the people should support the government the government should not support the people."

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For the best news and political commentary check out our new website. We have podcasts posted and new blogs from Nick and Jay on the way!

http://www.nationalrealitycheck.org/

While I agree with this more than I do not----Its very sad to me to see uninformed people thinking there is so much charity and ways for people to better themselves out there without any govt assistance. As someone who works very closely with many non-profits, charities, ect. this could not further from the truth. Also, it glosses over, or simply neglects, the elderly, handicapped, mentally challenged, those with mental health issues...and that just names a few---who are unable for any number of reasons to help themselves with the "pick up by the bootstraps" approach. But I suppose it is easier to claim laziness and use blanket statements for all people who are poor or suffering than to give a few pennies of our taxes.

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Never make a decision, by not making a decision.

Vulchor:

While I agree with this more than I do not----Its very sad to me to see uninformed people thinking there is so much charity and ways for people to better themselves out there without any govt assistance. As someone who works very closely with many non-profits, charities, ect. this could not further from the truth. Also, it glosses over, or simply neglects, the elderly, handicapped, mentally challenged, those with mental health issues...and that just names a few---who are unable for any number of reasons to help themselves with the "pick up by the bootstraps" approach. But I suppose it is easier to claim laziness and use blanket statements for all people who are poor or suffering than to give a few pennies of our taxes.

... this is actually whar Puro is saying. the charity of the people of the US has gone down because they now figure that the government will just take care of them.

correct me if im wrong, puro, but you are saying that the entitlement programs of the US have destroyed the charity business?

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

I dont take issue with that Kuz...I agree to a point. My issue is with the idea "there are plenty of places there to help people, they just need to help themselves, there's so much welfare already, etc." whenin actuality this couldnt be further from the truth.

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Never make a decision, by not making a decision.

I'm just gonna go ahead and assume you're referring to my statement Vulchor. First, let me assure you that I'm not talking about the elderly, the mentally or physically handicap, or those who simply do not have the ability to provide for themselves. The reason I made that statement is because I used to work as a foreman on interstate construction project on the southside of Jacksonville, FL. Part of my responsibilities was to supervise the day laborers that we hired from the labor pool. These people would essentially do the dirty work. We would get a lot of bums out there: people who didn't actually want to work, people who wanted to stand around, collect a paycheck, and then go buy their drugs and alcohol so they can get their fix and come back and do again tomorrow. Then there were a few people who were working at the labor pool because things had gone wrong in their lives and they were doing anything neccessary, anything possible to get their life back together. These people, I would help. I'd show them how to manage their money, how to set their priorities in place so they wouldn't fall into the same hole again. I'd get them going to church and introduce them to people who would help them if they would only help themselves. I'd do everything I could to teach them trades and get them set up with actual tradesmen who would take them on as an apprentice. If they were homeless, I'd get them into shelters. If the shelters were full, I'd get them in anyway assuring the shelter that this was no bum, this is a man who is working and trying to make a difference in his life. I'd introduce them to places they could get a hot meal. I've done this for well over 3 dozen individuals who came through our project.

The reason I'd do this is because someone did the same thing for me. I was that guy who went to the labor pool because my life had fallen apart. I was a good person, but I made some wrong decisions. I worked my tail off every day that I could, and lived wherever I could, however I could until I had enough money saved up to buy a vehicle. Once I had a vehicle, on days they labor pool didn't have work for me, I'd drive around and put in applications. Eventually, someone hired me. In fact, two places hired me and I worked 80 hours a week for 2 years straight! I was a standout employee. I finally got my own place, met a girl, started my life. The entire time I was employed at those two jobs, clerk at the Shell Station and Installer at Pep Boys, I put in job applications to places where I actually had formal training. Finally, a job opened up for me in the field I actually had training in, aviation, and I have a great job, a family, enough money that we don't really have to worry about money any more.

I hear a lot of people who say, I'm just gonna place my faith in God and let him direct me. Well, while I place my faith in God, I understand that God helps those who help themselves. If you want to turn your life around, it's possible. You can do it. I'm living proof. I didn't make that statement before because I thought it was possible. I made that statement because I know it's possible!

Thats a great story suspect, and I was not directing it at you specifically. I was trying to make a point that often we as a people have a tendency to make some blanket statements and when it comes to being poor or needing "welfare" often the groups I mentioned get placed into the same category with the lazy a$$ who would rather get food stamps and apply for disability than buy their cigarettes with money they earn.

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Never make a decision, by not making a decision.

kuzi16:

Vulchor:

While I agree with this more than I do not----Its very sad to me to see uninformed people thinking there is so much charity and ways for people to better themselves out there without any govt assistance. As someone who works very closely with many non-profits, charities, ect. this could not further from the truth. Also, it glosses over, or simply neglects, the elderly, handicapped, mentally challenged, those with mental health issues...and that just names a few---who are unable for any number of reasons to help themselves with the "pick up by the bootstraps" approach. But I suppose it is easier to claim laziness and use blanket statements for all people who are poor or suffering than to give a few pennies of our taxes.

... this is actually whar Puro is saying. the charity of the people of the US has gone down because they now figure that the government will just take care of them.

correct me if im wrong, puro, but you are saying that the entitlement programs of the US have destroyed the charity business?

You are correct Kuzi, the social welfare programs have killed people sense of charity. Like the story from Grover Cleveland showed, at the time people would step up and help their brothers. They donated 10 times the amount of money that Congress wanted to give them. This wouldn't happen today... Today you have FEMA that steps in and millions of dollars in fraudulent claims are made and our tax dollars end up going strip clubs and liquor stores. FEMA handed out $6.3 billion and almost a quarter of that was spend fraudulently. Hell FEMA even admited to losing 381 debit cards worth approx $762,000...

That being said, my next big question is, since we have been taught that "the government will take care of it," is it even possible for us to reverse this way of thinking nationwide?

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For the best news and political commentary check out our new website. We have podcasts posted and new blogs from Nick and Jay on the way!

http://www.nationalrealitycheck.org/

Vulchor:

Thats a great story suspect, and I was not directing it at you specifically. I was trying to make a point that often we as a people have a tendency to make some blanket statements and when it comes to being poor or needing "welfare" often the groups I mentioned get placed into the same category with the lazy a$$ who would rather get food stamps and apply for disability than buy their cigarettes with money they earn.

I agree with you Vulchor. I do it myself sometimes. I definately believe that the care of the disabled and handicap is neccessary. I do also believe that the welfare system needs a major overhaul to ensure that honest people are not mixed with the dishonest. When a person sits on welfare for the majority of their adult life, I start to believe that they're just lazy and not "less fortunate." I'd really like to see some massive improvements in the welfare department.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." - Ben Franklin - - - "Democracy is a form of government that cannot long survive, for as soon as the people learn that they have a voice in the fiscal policies of the government, they will move to vote for themselves all the money in the treasury, and bankrupt the nation." - Karl Marx