phobicsquirrel:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/opinion/05kristof.html?_r=1&emc=eta1 I will agree with you Jason, I don't think a mandate is right, I do think that having a single payer system such as medicare for all or VA for all is the way to go. But the current climate of washington that just can't happen. Though America is already taking it in the A**, I know I am, well my wife is anyway since I try to use the VA whenever I can but I have to keep my insurance because she isn't a Veteran. And the only reason I am still working with my employer is because of them picking up most of the cost of Health coverage. I am actually limiting myself on making money from my own business since I have to work during the day but can't afford getting health insurance on my own. If it wasn't for my wife I wouldn't need to worry about it but she has asthma and needs to have coverage.
PuroFreak:Yea, you have just proved my point. Never in history... The first line of the new health care Bill should read "Grab your ankles and get ready America!"
Vulchor: PuroFreak:Yea, you have just proved my point. Never in history... The first line of the new health care Bill should read "Grab your ankles and get ready America!"Actually I was proving you didnt HAVE to have anything...but I suppose your right. Much better for uninsured to go to ER for an emergency and then the hospital or taxpayers to eat that cost (which raises their premiums) than it is to give them a simple plan in the first place which causes more taxes. Seems like even without "mandatory" insurance, we are still all effected by people getting sick in an emergency situation.....unless we just let them die outside the hospital-----Im willing to explore any ideas though.
Vulchor:Yes...I know.....Be afraid, big brother is coming....the republicans will protect me. Sounds just like 9/11 on the healthcare front. Spare me the fear mumbo jumbo Puro....we had it for 8 years.
PuroFreak: phobicsquirrel:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/opinion/05kristof.html?_r=1&emc=eta1 I will agree with you Jason, I don't think a mandate is right, I do think that having a single payer system such as medicare for all or VA for all is the way to go. But the current climate of washington that just can't happen. Though America is already taking it in the A**, I know I am, well my wife is anyway since I try to use the VA whenever I can but I have to keep my insurance because she isn't a Veteran. And the only reason I am still working with my employer is because of them picking up most of the cost of Health coverage. I am actually limiting myself on making money from my own business since I have to work during the day but can't afford getting health insurance on my own. If it wasn't for my wife I wouldn't need to worry about it but she has asthma and needs to have coverage.I don't agree with the single payer system either for many reasons, but the main one is that I don't trust the government to run a damn swap meet, let alone the entire healthcare industry. I can't even imagine the BS and red tape it will cause.
PuroFreak: Vulchor: PuroFreak:Yea, you have just proved my point. Never in history... The first line of the new health care Bill should read "Grab your ankles and get ready America!"Actually I was proving you didnt HAVE to have anything...but I suppose your right. Much better for uninsured to go to ER for an emergency and then the hospital or taxpayers to eat that cost (which raises their premiums) than it is to give them a simple plan in the first place which causes more taxes. Seems like even without "mandatory" insurance, we are still all effected by people getting sick in an emergency situation.....unless we just let them die outside the hospital-----Im willing to explore any ideas though.You are wrong, you do HAVE to, or you will be fined, and if you don't pay the fine, possibly imprisoned... Now that makes a lot of fucking sense. And how is it going to be any better for the taxpayers to pay for EVERYONE'S healthcare and take away our freedom of choice when it comes to out own care? That makes a lot of sense too... If you think that is a good idea, then it's hard to take you seriously when you call yourself a "free thinker." Sounds more like you need the Nanny State to tell you every move to make...
phobicsquirrel: PuroFreak: Vulchor: PuroFreak:Yea, you have just proved my point. Never in history... The first line of the new health care Bill should read "Grab your ankles and get ready America!"Actually I was proving you didnt HAVE to have anything...but I suppose your right. Much better for uninsured to go to ER for an emergency and then the hospital or taxpayers to eat that cost (which raises their premiums) than it is to give them a simple plan in the first place which causes more taxes. Seems like even without "mandatory" insurance, we are still all effected by people getting sick in an emergency situation.....unless we just let them die outside the hospital-----Im willing to explore any ideas though.You are wrong, you do HAVE to, or you will be fined, and if you don't pay the fine, possibly imprisoned... Now that makes a lot of fucking sense. And how is it going to be any better for the taxpayers to pay for EVERYONE'S healthcare and take away our freedom of choice when it comes to out own care? That makes a lot of sense too... If you think that is a good idea, then it's hard to take you seriously when you call yourself a "free thinker." Sounds more like you need the Nanny State to tell you every move to make... "choice" in healthcare? Sorry bud there is no choice right now. That is what the health bill is about, having choice whether it be private or public and having private insurer's not drop people, not allow them care do to pre-existing conditions, or continue to raise rates and also to do so while providing less benefits.
PuroFreak: phobicsquirrel: PuroFreak: Vulchor: PuroFreak:Yea, you have just proved my point. Never in history... The first line of the new health care Bill should read "Grab your ankles and get ready America!"Actually I was proving you didnt HAVE to have anything...but I suppose your right. Much better for uninsured to go to ER for an emergency and then the hospital or taxpayers to eat that cost (which raises their premiums) than it is to give them a simple plan in the first place which causes more taxes. Seems like even without "mandatory" insurance, we are still all effected by people getting sick in an emergency situation.....unless we just let them die outside the hospital-----Im willing to explore any ideas though.You are wrong, you do HAVE to, or you will be fined, and if you don't pay the fine, possibly imprisoned... Now that makes a lot of fucking sense. And how is it going to be any better for the taxpayers to pay for EVERYONE'S healthcare and take away our freedom of choice when it comes to out own care? That makes a lot of sense too... If you think that is a good idea, then it's hard to take you seriously when you call yourself a "free thinker." Sounds more like you need the Nanny State to tell you every move to make... "choice" in healthcare? Sorry bud there is no choice right now. That is what the health bill is about, having choice whether it be private or public and having private insurer's not drop people, not allow them care do to pre-existing conditions, or continue to raise rates and also to do so while providing less benefits.You are 100% absolutely wrong. I have MANY MANY MANY choices with my healthcare. I have a decent insurance plan and I have an HSA account which is an awesome way to save for your health expenses. You don't lose it no matter what. It's there no matter what job I go to, what changes my insurance company makes, or if I switch insurance companies even. Our company we were with raised rates big time last year and our HR dept went to work and found us better coverage and my HSA is still sitting there building. Don't sit there and say we don't have choices, because I am taking steps to make sure I do and they are paying off. You have those choices too, you just choose not to pursue them. Thats your choice, I'd rather put forth the effort than just hand control over to the government.
phobicsquirrel: PuroFreak: phobicsquirrel: PuroFreak: Vulchor: PuroFreak:Yea, you have just proved my point. Never in history... The first line of the new health care Bill should read "Grab your ankles and get ready America!"Actually I was proving you didnt HAVE to have anything...but I suppose your right. Much better for uninsured to go to ER for an emergency and then the hospital or taxpayers to eat that cost (which raises their premiums) than it is to give them a simple plan in the first place which causes more taxes. Seems like even without "mandatory" insurance, we are still all effected by people getting sick in an emergency situation.....unless we just let them die outside the hospital-----Im willing to explore any ideas though.You are wrong, you do HAVE to, or you will be fined, and if you don't pay the fine, possibly imprisoned... Now that makes a lot of fucking sense. And how is it going to be any better for the taxpayers to pay for EVERYONE'S healthcare and take away our freedom of choice when it comes to out own care? That makes a lot of sense too... If you think that is a good idea, then it's hard to take you seriously when you call yourself a "free thinker." Sounds more like you need the Nanny State to tell you every move to make... "choice" in healthcare? Sorry bud there is no choice right now. That is what the health bill is about, having choice whether it be private or public and having private insurer's not drop people, not allow them care do to pre-existing conditions, or continue to raise rates and also to do so while providing less benefits.You are 100% absolutely wrong. I have MANY MANY MANY choices with my healthcare. I have a decent insurance plan and I have an HSA account which is an awesome way to save for your health expenses. You don't lose it no matter what. It's there no matter what job I go to, what changes my insurance company makes, or if I switch insurance companies even. Our company we were with raised rates big time last year and our HR dept went to work and found us better coverage and my HSA is still sitting there building. Don't sit there and say we don't have choices, because I am taking steps to make sure I do and they are paying off. You have those choices too, you just choose not to pursue them. Thats your choice, I'd rather put forth the effort than just hand control over to the government. No puro I am not wrong, or should I say millions of Americans are wrong... Have you not read the *** I've gone through with insurance? I haven't been denied yet but have been screwed already. I'm very happy that you are so happy with your insurance, and I'm glad that you haven't been denied anything but many Americans have. So it's my fault I have no choices. Yeah I see, that's really the truth. I don't put the effort to do anything. That's a pretty Fing weak thing to say. In fact maybe you should have gone to a few town halls and told the people who stood in front of their officials and told story after story of the horrors they have gone through because of private insurance companies. Maybe you should step outside your own little world and see things as they are. Did you read the link I posted? Do you watch C-span and hear about the millions of Americans who die due to the health system in America. Well when you ever have a major injury or get cancer and while in treatment get denied and have to pay out of pocket thousands of dollars or go bankrupt or lose a loved one you can come back and tell me that you had the choice and that I was wrong in wanting a system in which that couldn't happen. That's what a lot of people in this country have, self centered, "it won't happen to me" syndrome. Them other people are lazy, or from what you said, I don't pursue choices, or they are free loaders. Yeah keep paying your money to an organization that makes money of denying others while taking their money. There is so much Irony in hearing a person who is Middle Class (or around that area) defending the people who control them.
PuroFreak: phobicsquirrel: PuroFreak: phobicsquirrel: PuroFreak: Vulchor: PuroFreak:Yea, you have just proved my point. Never in history... The first line of the new health care Bill should read "Grab your ankles and get ready America!"Actually I was proving you didnt HAVE to have anything...but I suppose your right. Much better for uninsured to go to ER for an emergency and then the hospital or taxpayers to eat that cost (which raises their premiums) than it is to give them a simple plan in the first place which causes more taxes. Seems like even without "mandatory" insurance, we are still all effected by people getting sick in an emergency situation.....unless we just let them die outside the hospital-----Im willing to explore any ideas though.You are wrong, you do HAVE to, or you will be fined, and if you don't pay the fine, possibly imprisoned... Now that makes a lot of fucking sense. And how is it going to be any better for the taxpayers to pay for EVERYONE'S healthcare and take away our freedom of choice when it comes to out own care? That makes a lot of sense too... If you think that is a good idea, then it's hard to take you seriously when you call yourself a "free thinker." Sounds more like you need the Nanny State to tell you every move to make... "choice" in healthcare? Sorry bud there is no choice right now. That is what the health bill is about, having choice whether it be private or public and having private insurer's not drop people, not allow them care do to pre-existing conditions, or continue to raise rates and also to do so while providing less benefits.You are 100% absolutely wrong. I have MANY MANY MANY choices with my healthcare. I have a decent insurance plan and I have an HSA account which is an awesome way to save for your health expenses. You don't lose it no matter what. It's there no matter what job I go to, what changes my insurance company makes, or if I switch insurance companies even. Our company we were with raised rates big time last year and our HR dept went to work and found us better coverage and my HSA is still sitting there building. Don't sit there and say we don't have choices, because I am taking steps to make sure I do and they are paying off. You have those choices too, you just choose not to pursue them. Thats your choice, I'd rather put forth the effort than just hand control over to the government. No puro I am not wrong, or should I say millions of Americans are wrong... Have you not read the *** I've gone through with insurance? I haven't been denied yet but have been screwed already. I'm very happy that you are so happy with your insurance, and I'm glad that you haven't been denied anything but many Americans have. So it's my fault I have no choices. Yeah I see, that's really the truth. I don't put the effort to do anything. That's a pretty Fing weak thing to say. In fact maybe you should have gone to a few town halls and told the people who stood in front of their officials and told story after story of the horrors they have gone through because of private insurance companies. Maybe you should step outside your own little world and see things as they are. Did you read the link I posted? Do you watch C-span and hear about the millions of Americans who die due to the health system in America. Well when you ever have a major injury or get cancer and while in treatment get denied and have to pay out of pocket thousands of dollars or go bankrupt or lose a loved one you can come back and tell me that you had the choice and that I was wrong in wanting a system in which that couldn't happen. That's what a lot of people in this country have, self centered, "it won't happen to me" syndrome. Them other people are lazy, or from what you said, I don't pursue choices, or they are free loaders. Yeah keep paying your money to an organization that makes money of denying others while taking their money. There is so much Irony in hearing a person who is Middle Class (or around that area) defending the people who control them.Actually, a co-worker here who has the same insurance set up as I do DID get cancer. And guess what? The insurance DID pay for most of his treatment. Don't sit there on your fucking high horse and think for a second you know what I have been through or experienced or what I know. If we can get a decent deal here, than that means it is out there. It's not like we are special or we get something that the rest of the country can't get...
phobicsquirrel:just don't tell me that there are real choices out there