stephen_hannibal:

Damn it passed... my f***ing taxes are about to go up again. And the best part no one I know will be getting s**t for it!
F**k!!!!!

Welcome to the Socialist States of Obamanation. Guess he lied about not raising our taxes. Actually, seem to be that everthing that comes from his face is a lie. I never thought anyone could be a bigger liar than a Clinton. This guy makes me wish we had Hillary and that is one scary biatch.

phobicsquirrel:

So where does not protecting people from being gouged or dropped from healthcare or being denied due to an illness play into that?

this falls under the governments actual roll of protecting the rights of the individual. for the umpteenth time: if the company is violating the rights of the individual, it should be punished. if it is not, then it shouldnt.
health care is not a right. neither is food, water, a house, or any other important thing in your life. you have a right to take action to obtain these things, but you do not have the right to have them handed to you, nor do you have the right to force others to give them to you.
this is classic entitlement mentality.
in reality, nobody owes anyone anything.
if food ( for example) is a right then whats to stop you from walking into a grocery store and taking what you need off the shelf? its your right to have it. how do you expect the store to stay in business? without stores, food is a bit harder to come by. we would all have to farm it ourselves. food, like health care, is a very important good or service. you have a right to seek out food, but not a right to have it.

of course i realize that this is an imperfect analogy... but its one worth looking into.

phobicsquirrel:

Where does protecting business's over American lives become freedom?

again, this falls under the governments actual roll of protecting the rights of the individual. for the umpteenth time: if the company is violating the rights of the individual, it should be punished. if it is not, then it shouldnt.
companies should be able to run as they see fit provided they dont violate the rights of others.

phobicsquirrel:

One of the responsibilities of government is life and liberty and what is going on and has been going on is not that.

you have a right to pursue life, not to have it. we all die. if i die from a meteor falling out of the sky and hitting me according to your statement above, my rights have been violated. they have not. your right to life means that your life can not legally be taken from you by someone else.

your right to liberty means that you have a right to live your life as you see fit. when the government says that failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. then your right to decline insurance if you so chose is being taken away. If i dont want health insurance who is that hurting? nobody but myself. it is a victimless crime. you cannot opt out of this system without punishment. it is a violation of rights.

phobicsquirrel:

I know your for a business over a person but that isn't freedom.

then clearly, you do not understand my points. if the company violates my rights then i am not for that company. just like if a government policy violates my rights i am not for that policy.



on a more agreeable note... Phobic and i agree on these points (correct me if i am wrong please, im not looking to put words in your mouth)
we both think the system is messed up.
we both think that costs need to come down.
we both agree that having someone control our lives is not good
we both think that there needs to be some sort of reform
we both dont want a company to violate our rights.
we both dont want the government to violate our rights
as far as i can tell the only thing we really disagree on is how to go about fixing the problem while not violating rights.

is that all correct?
if it is, can you please explain to me why i am so evil? we have the same goals.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

jsnake:

This guy makes me wish we had Hillary and that is one scary biatch.

i do have to say that there is something that Hillary said that i couldnt agree more with:

“WE ARE AMERICANS AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO DEBATE AND DISAGREE WITH ANY ADMINISTRATION!”

i love that quote. (please note that it is in all caps because she was yelling it at the time) this is the best thing that woman ever said. (that i am aware of)

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

jsnake:

stephen_hannibal:

Damn it passed... my f***ing taxes are about to go up again. And the best part no one I know will be getting s**t for it!
F**k!!!!!

Welcome to the Socialist States of Obamanation. Guess he lied about not raising our taxes. Actually, seem to be that everthing that comes from his face is a lie. I never thought anyone could be a bigger liar than a Clinton. This guy makes me wish we had Hillary and that is one scary biatch.

Only the House version passed in the House, it is still a long hard road for this thing. I doubt we will see the end of it this year.

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Jason
You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.