kuzi16:wanna see america wake up? ... look at the NEXT elections.
Vulchor:Im again glad to see you keep trying here Squirrel.....but as George Carlin once talked about.....its tough to have conversations logically when not everyone has gotten to the "age of reason" yet. But at least its lively fun....if it were Bush, Limbaugh, Hannity, or the like minded idiots like them getting the prize (of course its for peace, so that could never happen).....we would be told to believe it was the greatest thing since the immaculate conception, or at least the crucifixtion.
PuroFreak:You will not find a logical debate with him. He will look down on you and insult you with an elitist attitude and resort to personal attacks and emotional ramblings because that is much easier. I've come to expect no more from him.
Krieg: kuzi16:wanna see america wake up? ... look at the NEXT elections. I'll second that. Just hope this healthcare bill can stall long enough till the elections.
kuzi16: but i will stand up for what i think is right. and that is individual rights over everything.
jsnake:Can anyone here show me where in the Constitution it says you have the right to government health care or welfare? We already have tax payer provided health care. No one can be denied health care when they go to the hospital. Read the signs next time you go to the ER. They cannot deny you health care due to your inability to pay. So we the tax payer pay for it in the long run already.What needs to be fixed is the $500 for a piece of gauze and $325 for a $5 bottle of Pedialyte. You should understand that hospitals charge this to make up for the loses from treating the uninsured and illegal aliens. We need to fix the health care industry itself and not give every citizen government run health care. When is the last time the government ran anything successfully?I know what it is like to be poor and homeless. I know what it is like to not have health care insurance and be sick. I know what it is like to have children and not have insurance. You know what? Not once, NEVER, was I or anyone in my family denied health care when I sought it.
phobicsquirrel: jsnake:Can anyone here show me where in the Constitution it says you have the right to government health care or welfare? We already have tax payer provided health care. No one can be denied health care when they go to the hospital. Read the signs next time you go to the ER. They cannot deny you health care due to your inability to pay. So we the tax payer pay for it in the long run already.What needs to be fixed is the $500 for a piece of gauze and $325 for a $5 bottle of Pedialyte. You should understand that hospitals charge this to make up for the loses from treating the uninsured and illegal aliens. We need to fix the health care industry itself and not give every citizen government run health care. When is the last time the government ran anything successfully?I know what it is like to be poor and homeless. I know what it is like to not have health care insurance and be sick. I know what it is like to have children and not have insurance. You know what? Not once, NEVER, was I or anyone in my family denied health care when I sought it. Other than an ER not refusing treatment everything else is false. The whole health care system is based on profit and hospitals are on a pay for service system. Why is it that if you go to say, Japan for a MRI it's about 100 bucks, but here it goes upwards over 1,000? Has nothing to do with the un-insured going to the ER. Does the constitution say anything about having police, does it say anything about have a highway system, does it say anything about having the fire department.. I can go on. These things are done for the good of the commons which is in there, the government is for the good of the commons. And going to the ER for a "health" plan just isn't practical. Do some research and read/hear about the millions of people who go and do this for head trauma or internal problems and then get turned away only to come back months or years later and now their problem is fatal. Government can't run anything well? Hmm, well how about the police, fire department, highways, military, post office, cia, nsa, airports.... I'm sure you'd love to have to pay police to show up, or the fire department to put out the fire in your home (it was tried in a state, maybe a couple of having private fire departments and it failed). How about having to pay per mile to drive, or having tolls all over the place to get to one area to another? So just because you haven't had a denied claim, does that mean it doesn't happen? This is all continuous cycle around these parts, my GOD. Is everything okay and nothing needs done until something happens to you or your family? What would you say to anyone who had their wife, daughter, husband, grandma, son.... who had their claim denied, got denied during cancer treatment, got dropped after years of paying for insurance because of acne as a child and didn't put it on the forms, ... the list goes on. Or just the HUGE increases to people's premiums or the companies premiums every year! Do you like paying that? And while rates keep going up, the companies pay their ceo's hundreds of millions of dollars, and using the money from premiums to lobby congress, and pay for houses and jets and other non-essentials? Do you know that health care in this country isn't care? Hospitals do not practice medicine, and in a lot of cases are pigeon held by what a person from the insurance of the patient says can or cannot be done? If this is your idea of America, a system which exploits the suffering and death of people to make money. Seriously dude, read about it. Wendle potter who use to be a Exec at Signa has been trying to tell people the truth behind the health insurance lobby for a while now, and he's just one in the pot of hundreds, even thousands of people in the medical field and even who use to work for insurance companies. And just read about the millions of people who have had their lives destroyed from these leeches. Why defend an institution that has anything but "your" best intentions in mind. That ravishes the lives of the people who they say they insure? My wife got denied her ER visit and 4000 dollars later and nothing was done in the ER to help her stomach pain and every test was done. Is that justice? Is that fair. If I do work for a client and then I don't do what I said I would do, then bill them what would happen? Well I could get brought into court, have the police on me. YOU can't sue the insurance company and your rights to a trial are almost impossible!!! It is a law called erisa. Sometimes a person may win a case but only for the amounts of their insurance premiums. it's a slippery slope. With all the evidence and all the information about the health insurance industry I'm amazed at how people can even defend them.
jsnake: phobicsquirrel: jsnake:Can anyone here show me where in the Constitution it says you have the right to government health care or welfare? We already have tax payer provided health care. No one can be denied health care when they go to the hospital. Read the signs next time you go to the ER. They cannot deny you health care due to your inability to pay. So we the tax payer pay for it in the long run already.What needs to be fixed is the $500 for a piece of gauze and $325 for a $5 bottle of Pedialyte. You should understand that hospitals charge this to make up for the loses from treating the uninsured and illegal aliens. We need to fix the health care industry itself and not give every citizen government run health care. When is the last time the government ran anything successfully?I know what it is like to be poor and homeless. I know what it is like to not have health care insurance and be sick. I know what it is like to have children and not have insurance. You know what? Not once, NEVER, was I or anyone in my family denied health care when I sought it. Other than an ER not refusing treatment everything else is false. The whole health care system is based on profit and hospitals are on a pay for service system. Why is it that if you go to say, Japan for a MRI it's about 100 bucks, but here it goes upwards over 1,000? Has nothing to do with the un-insured going to the ER. Does the constitution say anything about having police, does it say anything about have a highway system, does it say anything about having the fire department.. I can go on. These things are done for the good of the commons which is in there, the government is for the good of the commons. And going to the ER for a "health" plan just isn't practical. Do some research and read/hear about the millions of people who go and do this for head trauma or internal problems and then get turned away only to come back months or years later and now their problem is fatal. Government can't run anything well? Hmm, well how about the police, fire department, highways, military, post office, cia, nsa, airports.... I'm sure you'd love to have to pay police to show up, or the fire department to put out the fire in your home (it was tried in a state, maybe a couple of having private fire departments and it failed). How about having to pay per mile to drive, or having tolls all over the place to get to one area to another? So just because you haven't had a denied claim, does that mean it doesn't happen? This is all continuous cycle around these parts, my GOD. Is everything okay and nothing needs done until something happens to you or your family? What would you say to anyone who had their wife, daughter, husband, grandma, son.... who had their claim denied, got denied during cancer treatment, got dropped after years of paying for insurance because of acne as a child and didn't put it on the forms, ... the list goes on. Or just the HUGE increases to people's premiums or the companies premiums every year! Do you like paying that? And while rates keep going up, the companies pay their ceo's hundreds of millions of dollars, and using the money from premiums to lobby congress, and pay for houses and jets and other non-essentials? Do you know that health care in this country isn't care? Hospitals do not practice medicine, and in a lot of cases are pigeon held by what a person from the insurance of the patient says can or cannot be done? If this is your idea of America, a system which exploits the suffering and death of people to make money. Seriously dude, read about it. Wendle potter who use to be a Exec at Signa has been trying to tell people the truth behind the health insurance lobby for a while now, and he's just one in the pot of hundreds, even thousands of people in the medical field and even who use to work for insurance companies. And just read about the millions of people who have had their lives destroyed from these leeches. Why defend an institution that has anything but "your" best intentions in mind. That ravishes the lives of the people who they say they insure? My wife got denied her ER visit and 4000 dollars later and nothing was done in the ER to help her stomach pain and every test was done. Is that justice? Is that fair. If I do work for a client and then I don't do what I said I would do, then bill them what would happen? Well I could get brought into court, have the police on me. YOU can't sue the insurance company and your rights to a trial are almost impossible!!! It is a law called erisa. Sometimes a person may win a case but only for the amounts of their insurance premiums. it's a slippery slope. With all the evidence and all the information about the health insurance industry I'm amazed at how people can even defend them.I am not saying I support the way things are. I do not want people to die or suffer. Just because we don't see eye to eye doesn't mean I am a heartless b@stard. I wasn't sure what to call it but tort reform is what we need. These fat pigs running these insurance companies IMO shouldn't be making millions a year either. Businesses that are failing shouldn't be bailed out by the government and then hand out millions in bonuses. If a business is failing who the hell earned a bonus?When I say government run programs do not work I am talking federal government. US Postal Service loses millions of dollars every year and they keep pumping money into it. That is just one example. Of course I understand your point about police and fire service. You are wrong though. I have worked in law enforcement and there are police services you do have to pay for and unincorporated ares that you have to pay for fire service directly. For example in certain cities if you have so many false alarms you have to start paying every time the police respond to your residence. If you do not pay they stop responding and you get fined. I think for the most part that states need to govern themselves not the federal government. That is pretty much how things were intended in the first place by our forefathers. Seriously point out a successful federal government program that wasn't mired in corruption, high costs, and utter failure. What the current administration is suggesting is not the solution. So many other ways to look at this and fix it without mandating government controlled health care. You make good points but what will you say when someone you love is in their 60s or 70s and needs an operation and the government decides they have lived a good enough life or they are sick because of their lifestyle choices? I guarantee you they will pick and choose who gets what. Funny thing is if it is so good why have our government officials decided it isn't good enough for them!I am not 100% disagreeing with anyone here at all. Almost everyone has made some valid points and arguments. It would be nice if our government could get past Republican and Democrat long enough to enact real change that is the best for all of us. Instead they just want to slam the other as hard as they can and with extreme measures that will cost us all. They are gready corrupt pigs that care about nothing but themselves and their power they have achieved. ALL OF THEM. We might disagree but hey man we are in this together!!Now, can I get an Amen on some Fair Tax please?