A forum for cigar lovers.
kuzi16:a police state? how so?
kuzi16: sane: Also for the BS about Joe the plumber, if you look at most small business's 90% or more make a NET profit of less then $250k so they will not see an increase in taxes in most cases they will see a drop.im fairly sure that statement is not true.
sane: Also for the BS about Joe the plumber, if you look at most small business's 90% or more make a NET profit of less then $250k so they will not see an increase in taxes in most cases they will see a drop.
sane: kuzi16:a police state? how so? I feel that McCain will continue down the same path that Bush has lead us down for the past 8 years. Bush has moved us closer to being a police state then any other president over the last 50 or more years. What makes me think we are moving towards a police state? well lets take the patriot act that was a big jump, and then we can look at Guantanamo, or the blatant push to allow spying and detaining of US citizens. You can also look at what the police are getting away with, look at the WTO protests in Seattle. There is also the problem with private military gaining power and influence in the US. Those are just some reasons why I think we are moving towards being a police state.
phobicsquirrel:ummm milk it..
sane: kuzi16: sane: Also for the BS about Joe the plumber, if you look at most small business's 90% or more make a NET profit of less then $250k so they will not see an increase in taxes in most cases they will see a drop.im fairly sure that statement is not true. According to the IRS the top 5% of people that pay taxes pay an average of $142,975 as of 2004. Now that is all people not just small business and as you can see it is mush less then the $250,000 mark. I could not find statistics on only small businesses but according to the IRS as of 2003 there where 27,486,691 business filing taxes, out of that there ware 2,316,395 businesses that filed taxes that had a NET income over $250,000. Now this is not only small businesses this is S corps, C corp, partnerships, etc... so I may have been off a bit on the 90% but it is close. Sources: http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/bustaxstats/article/0,,id=168008,00.html http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/03intbus.pdf Some other info can be found here: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Owner,_Small_Business/Salary
dutyje: While I completely disagree with your premise, Sane (moving toward a police state), it is interesting to see you structure an argument that is as valid as the classic "Socialism!!" that is being brought against Democrats. I just think people like to throw out powerful, scary words rather than dissect actual issues. The words "Socialism" and "Police State" carry negative connotations, and represent an extremist view of more centrist policies, meant to scare people into believing in one side versus another.
kuzi16:ill see if i can find more on this. its bound to make me think. ... and thats good.
sane:I enjoy talking with people that don't see eye to eye with me and are confident enough to express there points of view.
dutyje: sane:I enjoy talking with people that don't see eye to eye with me and are confident enough to express there points of view. Hey, I only told y'all what I weigh.. I didn't make any mention of my height anywhere
dutyje:This "Joe the Plumber" has really caught on as a focal point in the campaigns. You can see his real story here. To summarize: 1. The guy makes nowhere near $250K 2. He would also make nowhere near $250K if he were to buy the business which isn't really even being sold to him. 3. Even if he did manage to make $250-$280K, you'd still have to look deeper at the numbers to see if he would pay any more money in taxes. 4. In all likelihood, if the business were pulling $280K, its additional tax outlay ($900) would be more than offset by other credits in Obama's plan, and he would still pay less annually in taxes than under current tax laws. So, in other words, no matter how you look at it, Joe the Plumber will be better off, financially, under Obama.
urbino: dutyje:This "Joe the Plumber" has really caught on as a focal point in the campaigns. You can see his real story here. To summarize: 1. The guy makes nowhere near $250K 2. He would also make nowhere near $250K if he were to buy the business which isn't really even being sold to him. 3. Even if he did manage to make $250-$280K, you'd still have to look deeper at the numbers to see if he would pay any more money in taxes. 4. In all likelihood, if the business were pulling $280K, its additional tax outlay ($900) would be more than offset by other credits in Obama's plan, and he would still pay less annually in taxes than under current tax laws. So, in other words, no matter how you look at it, Joe the Plumber will be better off, financially, under Obama. And his name's not Joe. And he's not a plumber (not a licensed one, anyway). (BTW, Doody, the / goes in front of the tag -- i.e. /a not a/.)