WOW...that was a hot one. Good question with a lot of good answers. Guess if the truth were told insurance companies would get off with not making many payouts....

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JUST ANOTHER DAY IN PARADISE...

eyegofler18@comcast.net:

No, I dont claim the right answers, but I do know how insurance companies underwrite. You must understand that when blood levels are taken, alcohol and tobacco play a big part in the result. So please don't think a cigar is "OK" when it comes to medical. Tobacco affects oxygen in the body. Whether you agree or not is fine with me. I am not a doctor, but I know about these issues.

See that should have been stated at the beginning I think. Your opinion is welcome, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but certain verbiage in your first post can tend to rub people the wrong way, such as the word " un-informed" used to describe those of us that had posted.

You have to understand that it is a matter of opinion that the question pertained to, not an insurance company criteria or a doctor's criteria, therefore all the answers were in regard to whether we thought he qualified as our opinion of what a smoker is.

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"Beliefs are neat. Cherish them, but don't share them like they're the truth" Bill Hicks

i think we ran him out....

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Follow my blog about cars and cigars

Freeman Motor Company

I smoke them like crack...they've actually replaced crack in my rotation. - j0z3r

eyegofler18@comcast.net:

.Your doctor has the answer, not an uninformed forum. 

I may be uninformed, however this isnt... and neither is this
my health insurance policy has me listed as a non smoker and to prove it all i have to do is pass a urine test every fer years. I get a months notice.

i am not a "smoker" i am a cigar enthusiast

...and my agent knows just how much i smoke. its my father in law

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

Great links there. I was unaware of an EPA study and equally unaware of how "credible" it is/was. It makes you wonder how often the EPA has "fudged" the numbers to make a study work for them.

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"Beliefs are neat. Cherish them, but don't share them like they're the truth" Bill Hicks

Well, I have to chime on this one since this is right up my ally. First, my credibility...I work for a national health and life agency and I manage about 2,000 independent insurance brokers nationwide. I provide support to these agents who have questions about everything health and life, so in order to keep my job, I have to have the answers. I also am an independent broker who is licensed in 6 states who brokers insurance on the side. This does not make me the definitive answer here, but maybe I can shed some light on some things...hopefully :-)

The original poster did not mention that this was for insurance, for all we know, it could have been a doctor's office. We really don't know. In case it is a dr.'s office, it would be the doctor who is asking. The poster would then have to answer according to the dr.'s definition of what a smoker is.

If it IS a health carrier that he is referring too, then he has to answer according to the health carrier's definition. Unfortunately, most health carriers state that any tobacco use within the last 12 mos. constitutes someone as a tobacco user. If they find tobacco substances in the client's body at time of claim and the client stated on the app they are not a tobacco user, the health carrier can rescind the policy (meaning they will refund all premiums paid and deny the claim). They can do this because the client wasn't honest on the app. This equates to not having insurance at all. Now of course, anyone can answer the app as they want, but is it worth the risk? That's the question we have to ask ourselves. For me? Saving an average of $50 a month doesn't compare to a $100,000 or $1,000,000 claim that I would have to pay out of my pocket. Again, that's just me.

If by chance, this is in reference to a life insurance carrier, things are different. If they find tobacco in the body in the event of a claim, they will take premiums paid and subtract that amount from the tobacco premiums that should have been paid. They then take this amount, subtract it from the benefit amount and pay that to the beneficiary.

I.E. Premiums paid over 'x' amount of years = $4,000
Tobacco Premiums that would have been paid if listed as a tobacco user = $5,000
Difference = $1,000
Benefit amount of policy = $250,000
Actual benefit paid to beneficiary at time of claim = $249,000
This is just an example...this dose not represent an accurate rate up for tobacco use.

So, unfortunately, our grumpy poster who told everyone that they were uninformed was correct. Not in saying that we're uninformed, but he was correct in stating that to a health carrier, we are smokers. But he was brash, audacious, offensive and even a bit presumptuous in his accusations. And I don't appreciate the light he has put on brokers, such as myself.

My whole point being, it depends on whose asking. We are not granted the luxury of defining ourselves as smoker or not.

Great post BSayer...I would say that yours qualified as an "informed" opinion. The guy may have used a term that just ruffled everyones feathers, whenever such definitive terms as "uninformed" are used they sound like indictments and causes some feedback that the user may not be looking for> At any rate thanks for taking the high road in your post.

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JUST ANOTHER DAY IN PARADISE...

Hawk55:

WOW...that was a hot one. Good question with a lot of good answers. Guess if the truth were told insurance companies would get off with not making many payouts....

Truth is, insurance is a business. Business and profit is what this country runs on. Even something so important as your health and life is a business. You are right, insurance carriers do not want to pay out claims. Not only does it eat into their profits, but more importantly, it eats into their 'operating expenses'.

Think about this. If you're a business owner and you restore old hot rods. Each hot rod costs an average of $50,000 to restore (car enthusiasts, insert any number here to make it accurate). Would you be willing to sell that for 10% of the cost? If you did that, how long would you be in business? Same thing goes for health insurance. Average premiums in our country run from $3600 to $7000 annually per household on the individual side (not group). One organ transplant costs upwards of $1,000,000, cancer usually runs anywhere from $300,000 to $500,000 and even higher. The carrier has to have almost 143 policies that pay $7000 annually (with no payouts, not even copays) to make up the cost of an organ transplant. This does not cover the expense of man hours it takes to process the claim, postage of notices and bills sent or any other expense other than the cost of the procedure itself.

Of course, organ transplants are fairly rare. But for $300k in cancer claims (a far more common scenario), it would take around 43 policies (again, with absolutely no benefits paid out) to make up the difference of the expense, again, not counting for the expenses to process such claims.

People who work with insurance do so to provide for their families in the same way everyone else goes to work to make a living. I broker insurance not because it was what I've wanted to do since I was 6, but because I need to pay for a house and for food for my little girls. It's the pursuit of profit that has made our country such a premier place to seek medical attention. And it's the profit that enables health carriers to pay exhuberant claims that we otherwise, would have no way of paying for.

Another reason why we have our balls in a grinder. It's up to you what to put, but I would say having a few a week does not make you a smoker. Though like everything there is some type of risk. I don't recall if much proof of whether you smoked a cigar would last long in your blood. Does anyone know if nicotine is a standard screen done at the time of a normal Blood Test?

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And what of second hand smoke? Are these tests that are run at the time of a claim able to differentiate (sp?) between first and second hand smoke?

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Bobby