ok so...
some people have been asking about sizes of a cigar and how it matters to the taste. I thought i would tack on my essay about wrapper to filler ratio found in this thread. i hope that over time my "blending 101" thread will get better and better and will become a tool that others can learn from.

here we go:


...i didnt want it to come down to this, but it has to.

math

wrapper to filler ratio is basically how much tobacco is filler vs. how much is wrapper. first we have to make a few minor assumptions:
1) the part of the cigar that is burning and the part that is just about to be burned is infinitely thin. so at one instant its not burning and immediately after, it is --making it two dimensional.
2) the wrapper has a width of 1/64 of an inch.

we have to make these assumptions so that we have:
a) a surface area calculation only
b) a relatively easy set of numbers to work with.

Cigar "A" has a ring gauge of 50. Cigar "B" has a ring gauge of 40. if we look at the foot of each of these cigars we will be looking at two circles within circles. (the inner circle represents the filler of each cigar). Cigar "A" has a diameter of 50/64 and that means a radius of 25/64ths. since Area = Pi times radius squared we can figure out the surface area of the foot of the cigar. so:

3.14 x (25/64 x 25/64 ) = 0.4791 (ish) inches squared.

that is the entire surface area of the foot of the cigar. we need the wrapper's surface area only. we get that by subtracting out the surface area of the filler. this is where assumption number two comes in. if the wrapper is 1/64th of an inch thick then the filler diameter must be 48/64ths of an inch or a radius of 24/64ths therefore the surface area of the filler alone is:

3.14 x (24/64 x 24/64) = 0.4415 (ish)

now we must subtract out the filler surface area from the entire area to get the surface area of the wrapper alone.

wrapper surface area = 0.4791 - 0.4415 = .0376

to get the wrapper to filler ratio you devide the wrapper surface area by the filler surface area:

0.0376/0.4415 = .08516(ish)

ok ... now for the cigar with a ring gauge of 40...

total surface area = 3.14 x (20/64 x 20/64) = 0.3066ish

filler surface area = 3.14 x (19/64 x 19/64) = 0.2767 ish

wrapper surface alone = 0.3066 - 0.2767 = .0299

Wrapper to filler ratio = 0.0299/0.2767 = 0.1080

on the smaller cigar (cigar "B") the ratio produced a larger number than on the larger cigar (cigar "A") 0.8516 is less than 0.1080

therefore smaller ring gauge cigars have a higher wrapper to filler ratio and therefore have a different flavor than the same cigar rolled with the same tobacco and rolled larger. any questions?

this is why the lancero size is becoming popular.

edit:
there are many brands that realize that this change in flavor happens when the size changes. therefore, they change the blend so that every size has the same taste. Many of the classic companies that try to keep with Cuban tradition will not do this. Cuban blenders tend to make different sizes BECAUSE of the different flavors.

personally, i like the complexity of the perfecto shape. the wrapper to filler ratio is always changing.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

Thanks for the drudge work, kuzi.

kuzi16:

this is why the lancero size is becomming popular.

Also because I like them, and I'm a trendsetter.

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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

I never knew cigar smoking was so mathematical, I may have to change hobby's... Lancero's remind me of brown cigs, they're a turn off for me.

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FAV. Smokes are in my Profile....Reviews

Great summary!

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Work called! They said if you dont come in on Friday, dont bother to come in on Monday! - Whoo hoo four day weekend!

Thanks for putting forth the effort Kuzi. I was thinking of growing tobacco in the Philippines when I retire and have been reading a bit about rolling and so forth. This was great stuff. Just a quick question. What do you know about Pilato?

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I need a bigger humidor...

its a strain of cuban tobacco taken from cuba and imported first to the DR in 1962. Its is a smaller (shorter) strain with larger leaves. its, from what i understand, a fairly good filler leaf. Im not so sure on how it does as a wrapper. ill look more into that after i get home from work.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

kuzi16:

ill look more into that after i get home from work.

I imagine that this particular plant would produce a fairly complex leaf, given its size. a larger leaf will tend to be more complex in flavor because of the structure of leaves.
lemme 'splain...
in the center of the leaf there is a large vein. this is where all the nutrients come up from the roots into the stalk and then into the leaf. from this vein come smaller veins, from them smaller. this is the "skeletal" and "circulatory system" of the leaf. The larger the leaf the farther the nutrients have to ravel to reach the end of the leaf. as they move futher and further along in the leaf they are "used up"
by the time that you reach the fery edges of the leaf there are significantly less nutrients reaching those places... less flavor.

if you were to roll these leaves as a wrapper and binder (where most of the flavor comes from) the beginning of the smoke would be a bit more mild than the middle and then it would mellow near the end as well. there would be a bit of a "sweet spot" in the middle of the cigar...hence complexity for the duration of the smoke.


in fact, this is how the concept of the NUB came along. When the NUB is rolled, the roller will cut down a larger leaf so that the center area closest to the veins with the most nutrients is used in the wrapper. the nub ends up being very short.
this is why they can say it is "all sweet spot"

also why the nub is fairly un-complex throughout the smoke.


i hope this is what you are looking for. as fore the flavor profile for that particular strain....
im not sure. Ive never smoked a "Pilato Puro" I imagine it would have a similar taste to a criollo but a bit milder and with the influences of country it was grown in.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

from another thread:

from a blenders point of view there are pros and cons to Maduros.

Pros: a nice sweet chocolaty taste.

indifferent: the strength of the tobacco is diminished a bit.

Cons:
there are a few...
the Maduro process is very hard on tobacco. The tobacco is harvested and baled very tightly. the pressure creates heat and the inner leaves begin to cook a bit. since there is no pressure on the outer leaves of the bale the bales are taken apart and rebound every so often to rotate the tobacco so that all of the leaves are cured the same. all of this is very hard on a fragile natural leaf. many leaves of the bale will develop holes or discoloration that is inconsistent with the rest of the bale or it will darken inconsistently in relation to itself. those leaves cannot be used as wrapper leaf because of those imperfections. they then must be either wasted or used in other ways. Traditionally, Maduro leaves are not used in binder and filler (with a few exceptions: Mx2, Triple Maduro...) but this is the other way that inperfect looking maduro leaves can be used.
this brings me to the next "Con"...
the leaf itself must be strong. the stronger the leaf, the less waste you will have from the maduro process. this limmits your choice of leaf a bit. It isnt impossible to maduro anything it just creates more waste and thus less profit. Most often a good Connecticut seed Broadleaf wrapper quality leaf will produce a good maduro, almost regardless of where it is grown. this leaf is thicker and stronger and has a good stretch to it. these are all good qualities when it comes to being a wrapper leaf. on the other side of things a Corojo is fairly thin leaf that does not endure the proscess as well. It is very rare to see a maduro corojo, though they do exist (Camacho Corojo Maduro)

all in all, Maduro cigars are just another form of cigar... and either you like em or you dont.



i do.

and dont confuse Maduro with Oscuro!!
the first post in this thread talks about that.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

Very informative & helpful for all us "newbies",,,, thx kuzi !

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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." --- Sir Edmund Burke

there have been a few threads in recent weeks that have to to with different vitolas: NUBs, Churchills, A, etc.

like this thread.

i will post the meat and potatoes of that thread here as to add to the concept of blending.



sketch "A" is a picture of a standard tobacco leaf. there is a stem in the center and veins coming off of that stem that supply nutrients to thew rest of the leaf. the farther up on the leaf you fo and the farther away from the stem and the stalk (not shown) the lower the nutrient concentration

sketch "B" is the wrapper leaf after it has been cut to become a wrapper. the stem has been cut out along with the thickest part of the larger veins and the edges cut down a bit to make a more uniform wrapper.

Sketch "C" is the addition of the wrapper leaf to the cigar. the binder is already holding the filler together at this stage. as you can see the leaf is being rolled at an angle. if you have ever looked how the seems in a cigar twist around it like a barber pole this is where it comes from.

Sketch "D" shows you how the NUB is cut. (sort of, keep in mind this i a very quick sketch. the actual cut is way more curved and leaves more on one end to make a cap out of) there is more taken off from the edge of the leaf and a bit taken off the tips. these are the areas that do not have as many nutrients reaching them from the stem. this also results in a narrower band of tobacco that can be used as a wrapper so shorter cigars are required. the large ring can remain because the length of the leaf is not that much shorter.

a similar process takes place with the filler leaf. in a "full length" cigar the filler leaf is folded back on itself until it is about the right length. this has a tendency to make the end have less of the rich part of the leaf. with a nub, only the nutrient rich center part of the leaf is used (sweet spot)



another thought with this cigar is that the thick ash form the incredible density of the filler tobacco shields and filters the air more so than "normal" ash, producing a cooler burn.

jlmarta:

it seems to me that if two cigars are rolled using the exact same blend and ring gauge and then one of them is cut to the length of a Nub (4 inches, I think) and the other is cut to the length of, say, a toro, are you going to tell me that immediately upon lighting each of them, the Nub is already going to be in its 'sweet spot' but the toro isn't??

this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how a cigar is rolled. cigars arent rolled to a ring then cut to a length. every cigar, even a NUB, is designed to be exactly as long as it is.




*** it, just watch it yourself...

if you were to make a barber pole style cigar you would just use two different wrappers at sketch "B" and offset them a bit so at sketch "C" they would both be visible.





a bit further down in the post was this conversation that i feel needs to be brought up:

kuzi16:

Fairwind:

kuzi16:

Fairwind:

Nothing to explain, you have a firm grasp on advertising. I have smoked nubs and they're no different except a bigger ring and shorter length. Nothing special about them.

Dan

way to be a cynic.

LOL - not being a cynic, just that after smoking 5 of them, they're a good cigar but nothing world beating.

I just happen to like the toro length. I believe it has the right ring size to length for a cigar.

Good tobacco will make any cigar taste great regardless of the length.

I'll take a 6x60 from Rocky Patel over a nub any day of the week if I want a big fat cigar.

Just my taste and opinion of over 30 years of enjoying cigars daily.

Dan

you make a point. the sweet spot on cheap tobacco is not as good as the beginning of great tobacco.

the toro also used to be my favorite. but i think now im moving into the lancero and the lonesdale and the corona. better wrapperto filler ratio. it gives the wrapper (the best tobacco in the cigar) a platform to shine on.

to further the point by showing the opposite of the NUB...
in the vitola commonly known as the "A" (usually in the range of 9 or so inches long) the filler leaf, when bunched, is not folded over or cut. this means that through the length of the cigar you get all points in the leaf.
as discussed above, the different areas of the leaf get different nutrients in different ways. the flavor of a singular leaf will not be uniform throughout. the "A" vitola is the most likely to showcase the complexity within the filler.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

Very informative kuz, thanks again.

I do want to add this about the nub. First kuzi is completely correct in that a nub is not cut down to that length, it is rolled that length and like every other cigar(aside from pefectos and shaggy foots) it is just snipped at the end so that the foot is uniform. This is evident when you look at the turns(the seams in the wrapper where it overlaps itself as it is rolled onto the cigar), every cigar(except some lanceros and 'A''s) have three turns.

Second the whole concept of a nub is different. To say "they're no different except a bigger ring and shorter length" is 100% incorrect and this is NOT a matter of opinion, it is fact.
Most cigars a designed to allow a cigar to develop knowing that the cigar will smoke different at the beginning than it will in the middle or the end. This is complexity, almost all blenders strive for this. The nub strives for the exact opposite they want the cigar to lack that complexity. They want it to be the same cigar in the middle as it was in the begining and will be at the end.
There is no doubt that Oliva and Sam succeeded in attaining this goal. So to say it is no different is incorrect. To say it is boring or that you don't like it is fine and understandable. Being that there is essentially 1 flavor profile this cigar is going to be very polarizing. Most cigars have at least 2 - 3 flavor profiles which gives the smoker a couple different chances to enjoy the cigar. How many of you have a cigar that you like but you know the last third sucks, the first third is just ok but that middle third makes it worth smoking from time to time? Well the nub doesn't offer that, either you like the whole thing or you don't. Take it or leave it ...

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j0z3r:

I liked it, it tasted less like a Gurkha and more like a normal cigar, good flavors too.

all of that is true. nice addendum.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

Great info and great add ons.

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Work called! They said if you dont come in on Friday, dont bother to come in on Monday! - Whoo hoo four day weekend!