urbino:

I think America is a good deal more durable than that.

i tend to agree with that.

i know that i sound like that a bit myself. I think for me its more frustration than anything else.

I hope that what the media says about obama is true: that he will govern from the middle.

his voting record and associations with people very far to the left do not support that prediction.
hope for the best, expect the worst.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

urbino:

No offense meant, guys, but it really is striking to me just how many things conservatives are afraid of. No matter what happens, somebody on the right is telling us we're right on the brink of disaster.

I think America is a good deal more durable than that. Besides, I just don't have the energy to be in siege mode all the time.

I gotta tell ya Urbs, I'm with ya on this one...

If McCain had won there would have been people who would have been disappointed... People who felt our wars would only continue to dredge on with no end in sight... People who felt our economy was in for a hard stretch... etc...

But in general, hey, despite some of his ideals being things others might not agree with, the bottom line is he would have done the best job he knows how...

But McCain didn't win... Obama did... and since the announcement I've heard more "End Of The World" talk than they probably did back in the middle ages! It's frankly ridiculous...

And please don't be offended, I'm not speaking just of this forum... I'm speaking everywhere... I tune into the radio on the ride home election night (had to work election night) and there's 3 guys on there talking about how "America is over!" ... You wouldn't have BELIEVED some of the "thoughts" these guys were having... Even one of them going as far as saying he was going to look into (and it sounded like he was being really serious here) becoming a citizen of another country!

I've heard so much "DOOM" talk over the past two days that I'm frankly sick of it...

Look... I didn't want either of them to win... I'd have been just as happy if Nader won for christ's sake... Why? Because I honestly think there are plenty of people out there that could have run this country better than EITHER of them...

But that doesn't mean the world is coming to an end... WTF is wrong with some of you people? (again not speaking about the forum, but just in general)

I mean really... Some people are acting like a democrat broke into their house when they were a small child and killed their father and raped their mother while forcing them to watch!

Friggin relax already...

The bottom line is Obama won... HOW??? Because the MAJORITY of Americans wanted it and got out there to use their voice to make it so...

Now before somebody goes off on a rant about how the majority of americans didn't understand the issues, or what the candidates represented, etc.. Let me just say...

TOUGH!

That's right... DEAL WITH IT... That's how the system works... It's called a Democracy... Something you seem to stand up for with such passion... At least until it doesn't give you your way...

Alright I'm done...

And before anyone get's their socks all in a bind, as I've stated, I'm not talking so much about this forum as just in general...

As Urbs said, if America is so fragile and it's leadership so screwed up that having one man in the presidency will bring about the end of our country, then maybe it's time for a change after all! Last time I checked it WAS a democracy, not a dictatorship!

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Luko:

Just keep in mind if you do, you're pissing off a dude who shaves with a sword.

:::starts a slow clap:::


I'm feeling a sirius/urbs ticket in 2012

JK, but I do dig the diversity on this forum...makes for some great "discussion".

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"As I grow to understand life less and less, I learn to love it more and more." - Jules Renard

no, i dont think "the end of the world" is here.

i do think that there is potential to have a drastic change with the way the US runs, and that change will be more socialist in nature. this is what many people fear. this has been a great country for over 200 years. many people (myself included) have tied this greatness to the individualism, drive of people, personal responsibility, and the capitalist system the country has always had. Losing those things means losing greatness.

"If you give a man a handout, you refine his skill for begging. If you give a man a hand-up, you refine his self-worth."

in my mind social systems give to many handouts. In a capitalist system you empower people to go out and get what they want how they want it.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

I don't know where y'all are getting your news, but I find these two stories particularly eye-opening:

Problem with the Voting Machines

Obama Win Brings Change

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My foot hurts

rusirius:

But McCain didn't win... Obama did... and since the announcement I've heard more "End Of The World" talk than they probably did back in the middle ages! It's frankly ridiculous...

People are worried about the future. Nothing ridiculous about that that I can see.

And you know what? People who were for McCain might be worried, but I've never heard one threaten to leave the country if their candidate got elected. I have, over the course of the campaigns, heard quite a few Obama supporters express that sentiment, and that disappoints me.

rusirius:

If McCain had won there would have been people who would have been disappointed... People who felt our economy was in for a hard stretch... etc...

If this was true explain to me how our stock market immediately fell, even further, upon the anouncement of Obama's win after it had been recovering slowly in recent days. We are in for hard times no matter who had won but ...

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I don't wanna hold a job down if its just to make ends meet. I prefer rapid rise and faster falls, I wanna die the American dream.
~~ Josh Martinez

madurofan:

rusirius:

If McCain had won there would have been people who would have been disappointed... People who felt our economy was in for a hard stretch... etc...

If this was true explain to me how our stock market immediately fell, even further, upon the anouncement of Obama's win after it had been recovering slowly in recent days. We are in for hard times no matter who had won but ...

C'mon Maddy...given your logic, if Obama is responsible for the Stock Markets' downturn in the last few days? Who is responsible for the whole economy tanking in the last couple of months?
The markets have been responding to negative GDP and job loss / creation reports, I don't see how you tie that to Obama ?

Shika:

rusirius:

But McCain didn't win... Obama did... and since the announcement I've heard more "End Of The World" talk than they probably did back in the middle ages! It's frankly ridiculous...

People are worried about the future. Nothing ridiculous about that that I can see.

And you know what? People who were for McCain might be worried, but I've never heard one threaten to leave the country if their candidate got elected. I have, over the course of the campaigns, heard quite a few Obama supporters express that sentiment, and that disappoints me.

You should re-read siruis' post. He states in it that there WERE at least one of the three guys he was talking about doing just that, looking at leaving the US.
Just a thought...where would you go that is more right wing and less socialist then the US?

You're right, I missed that part of the post. Though I would be more convinced if this were a conversation in person, not one being broadcast. People tend to exaggerate when they know they're being heard by a large audience.

I'm not too concerned with Obama. Honestly we needed somebody heading the country who was going to be energetic, diplomatic and smooth talking, especially after Bush. We needed somebody who could speak well and reassure not only the people of the US, but the people and politicians from other countries. I think he was a good choice in that respect. Aside from that, the president has pretty limited power. He only really has control in emergency situations. He can approve or deny bills and even then his decision can be overridden. Whats really scary here is that the Democrats have the House and the Senate as well. I honestly think that Obama would have been a fantastic President for a republican house and senate. With democrats in full control however there is nothing to stop bloated socialist programs from sliding right on through.

laker1963:

Just a thought...where would you go that is more right wing and less socialist then the US?

damn good question!

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"As I grow to understand life less and less, I learn to love it more and more." - Jules Renard

Why an Obama Victory was Necessary for National Security:

My climbing partner just returned from his two-week trip home to Africa, and I was speaking to him about the election this evening. He said that the news of an Obama victory has been extremely well-received by the world. His girlfriend, who is from Pennsylvania, and who lives with him here in Charlotte, had a hard time deciding between the candidates, and eventually voted for McCain. He is not a citizen, so obviously had no vote to cast.

Many on this forum and elsewhere are quick to point out that McCain is a proponent of a strong military and increased military spending. Obama has indicated that we need to bring the Iraq war to a close as quickly as feasible, and that he would like to see military spending reduced. Naturally, you would assume that the security of our nation would be much better under the leadership of John McCain.

Let's look for a moment at the average American, and his/her understanding of basic issues in this most recent election. It is interesting to see the percentage of people who can carry a meaningful conversation weighing the positive and negative traits of the two candidates. Certainly, in the global community, among people with a reduced direct interest in the person who will take charge, there is less of an understanding, on average, of the two candidates. In fact, the parties who pose the most direct threat to our national security probably have little to no understanding of our country.

So let's look at the candidates from their perspective for a moment. George W. Bush has been leading our country for 8 years, and has led the country as it launched war(s) in Muslim nations. He has taken a determined and confrontational stance against the international community. His father, George H.W. Bush, was known for the same thing. So you have two old white men of the same name, leading our country as members of the Republican Party, for 12 of the last 20 years. And those 12 years have seen the most heated international confrontation.

Now, in this election, Americans are being presented with two choices. One choice is an old white man who is a member of the same party as the president who has dealt strongly with the international community. The other choice is a black man with a much more friendly-sounding name. The first choice pledges to increase the focus on our military, while the second wants to take some of that emphasis away and draw our involvement in international conflict to a close.

The very act of electing Obama as our next president has inherently reduced, by some amount that we cannot measure, the amount of international hate we face as Americans. Or, at the very least, it has failed to ratchet up that tension even further. The international community are our partners and allies, not our enemies. I am thankful that we had George W Bush leading our country at the time that terrorists targeted our nation. I don't have the ability to know whether or not our nation is safer after having invaded Iraq, or if their citizens are in better or worse shape. However, I do believe that we are safer for our actions in Afghanistan. By electing a friendly-looking, friendly-sounding president that pledges to bring change, I think we have made a statement to the international community that we intend to work with them, rather than control them. We have already made a lasting impression with respect to our strength.

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My foot hurts

Joe, thanks for your calming opinion.. I don't know that OUR President Elect has a friendly sounding name , but he certainly has a winning personality. Actions speak louder than words. Now, if all goes according to this insightful plan, we shall all have better lives as a result of it. At least on the international level you speak of.

I remember feeling a tremendous amount of relief, in the weeks following 9/11, that G.W. had been elected President over Al Gore. I felt that it was incredibly important for our national security. I have that same feeling now with respect to Barack Obama. His name, BTW, sounds a lot more friendly to an Asian or African than John McCain, which was really my point. The great thing about our country is that we all know so many people with such unique names... it really helps to defy stereotypes.

One thing I'd like to do is start a diary or blog which captures how our rights, standard-of-living, and international relations change over the next four years. I've come to the conclusion that the reason many people have steadfast political affiliations is that there is little objective evidence to measure the impact of one leader vs. another. Statistics are notorious for being able to support and refute an argument at the exact same time. My hope is that we can cut past all this by examining relevant measures.

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My foot hurts