phobicsquirrel:I'm thinking Obama will win, and if he does what he says, I'm sure he'll get re-elected. If McCain wins, and that would be tough, I'm sure things won't get any better and I'm sure from his speeches and palin's that they have no plans.. Just my two cents, I'm really looking forward to what will happen.
Big Dean: phobicsquirrel:I'm thinking Obama will win, and if he does what he says, I'm sure he'll get re-elected. If McCain wins, and that would be tough, I'm sure things won't get any better and I'm sure from his speeches and palin's that they have no plans.. Just my two cents, I'm really looking forward to what will happen.I agree completely.
kuzi16: Big Dean: phobicsquirrel:I'm thinking Obama will win, and if he does what he says, I'm sure he'll get re-elected. If McCain wins, and that would be tough, I'm sure things won't get any better and I'm sure from his speeches and palin's that they have no plans.. Just my two cents, I'm really looking forward to what will happen.I agree completely.iduno... if he raises taxes on business those businesses will have less money to pay out and hire more people. then unemployment goes high enough then it could spiral down and NOT get re-elected. I mean seriously, when has there ever been a tax increase that has fixed a recession? yes obama will cut taxes on middle class at first but when the bush tax cuts expire in 2010... isnt that an increase? ... for the middle class? so then the middle class has more taxes, the upper class has higher taxes and so does business. this isnt how to spur growth. jobs and commerce make money and real wealth, not taxes and redistribution.
laker1963: Governments are supposed towork for everybody... not just the rich, we can all see very clearly that doesn't work.
kuzi16: laker1963: Governments are supposed towork for everybody... not just the rich, we can all see very clearly that doesn't work. the government IS supposed to work for everyone. It does that best by keeping its nose out of the lives of the people in the country. Everyone can succeed. the higher the Taxes however, the harder it is to create real wealth in the private sector. taking money out of the hands of people and putting in the hands of government will not grow the economy. the private sector runs the economy. they government can only make it worse. the best thing the government can do to help the economy is stay out of the way. Let me succeed and keep the money that i earn.
laker1963: The rich only reinvest money into the system when they stand to make a suitable profit from that investment.
laker1963: Governments sometimes have to invest in programs which will show no return monetarily, (mass transit) but obviously has a "pay back" to society. The rich would not even consider the fact that Mass Transit can not only save money but also help to solve other issues such as environmental concerns. Why, because there is no money to be made. Under these circumstances it is OK for a government to invest money ( the people's money) into this type of venture. That is wealth redistribution.
laker1963: Funny how advocates of the free enterprize system believe that government should NOT get involved and that the private sector should run the economy. So why are the PEOPLE being asked to pay for these bailout packages that are turning up all over the world. Why are the rich folk, and or corporations like Mobile Oil (just reported $14.8 BILLION in 3rd quarter profits) not ponying up to the bar and offering to bail the system out? All of a suden free enterprise looks suspiciously like a social system. Corporate Welfare seems to be OK... help bail out the banks so they can continue to throw people out of their homes. !
laker1963: As for the comment that everyone can succeed... well that sure does SOUND good doesn't it? Reality? NOT
kuzi16: laker1963: The rich only reinvest money into the system when they stand to make a suitable profit from that investment. thats true. and while they are making hte profit by reinvesting they are creating jobs because they have to hire people to make that happen, they have to buy goods for raw material, they have to deal with banks that will take that money and loan it out to others. You missed my point. The rich ONLY invest in themselves in other words. They do NOT invest in society for any reason other then profits. That is why governments have to. laker1963: Governments sometimes have to invest in programs which will show no return monetarily, (mass transit) but obviously has a "pay back" to society. The rich would not even consider the fact that Mass Transit can not only save money but also help to solve other issues such as environmental concerns. Why? Because there is no money to be made. Under these circumstances it is OK for a government to invest money ( the people's money) into this type of venture. That is wealth redistribution. in a way you are right. step onto that government paid for bus and give any of the people on there enough money to buy a car and run it without thinking twice about it and you will never see that person on the bus again. It is redistribution, and the government doesnt "have to invest" in it. they choose to. I don't get your point. Nobody is giving these people anything. That is why they are on the bus. The issue is who provided the bus? The government did, using tax payers money. It could be argued that average people are paying for the priviledge of making profits for corporations. Why else would they need public transportation but to get to work? How does giving or not giving one of those people a car have anything to do with this discussion. The government does not choose to invest in things like public transportation... it is the only alternative out there, and will become more important as time goes on from so many different views. the individual will not endlessly work for the benefit of the masses. laker1963: Seems like a strange thing to say. You live in a country where people DIE for the benefit of a few elites and yet you claim those same people would not WORK for the benfit of the masses. I think they already do. Whether or not they are actually achieving what they believe they are is another issue. Funny how advocates of the free enterprize system believe that government should NOT get involved and that the private sector should run the economy. So why are the PEOPLE being asked to pay for these bailout packages that are turning up all over the world. Why are the rich folk, and or corporations like Mobile Oil (just reported $14.8 BILLION in 3rd quarter profits) not ponying up to the bar and offering to bail the system out? All of a suden free enterprise looks suspiciously like a social system. Corporate Welfare seems to be OK... help bail out the banks so they can continue to throw people out of their homes. ! im am for free enterprise. i dont support the federal bail out at all. it should fail. they made decisions that caused them to fail. let them. the people should not be asked to bail out anyone. the federal bail out bill was taking money out of my pocket and giving it to a business that has proven that they dont (wont/cant) handle money correctly. why arent the rich stepping up to bail it out? because its their money and they have every right to whatever they want to with it. ...and frankly, i would not want to invest in a business that is failing and has proven that they cant/wont make a good decision. we shouldnt take money from any company that has had huge success because others cant, wont, or are unable to be as successful. Economic Darwinism. This is not a business failure, c'mon. This is the failure of a ideological system, the free enterprise system. Left alone and not manipulated the system may work fine (kind of like democracy) however it has been perverted and manipulated for the benefit of a realitivly small group of elites. That is why government does need some level of involvement, if only to monitor that the system is not being irrepairably damaged by a few for some short term gain at the cost of long term repercussions for the economy and society as a whole. laker1963: As for the comment that everyone can succeed... well that sure does SOUND good doesn't it? Reality? NOT how is that not true? what is stopping people from success? ill tell you who: themselves. and if you try and say "what about the mentally and physically ill?" ill just have to laugh because that is not who i am talking about. that is a very different kettle of fish.
laker1963: Governments sometimes have to invest in programs which will show no return monetarily, (mass transit) but obviously has a "pay back" to society. The rich would not even consider the fact that Mass Transit can not only save money but also help to solve other issues such as environmental concerns. Why? Because there is no money to be made. Under these circumstances it is OK for a government to invest money ( the people's money) into this type of venture. That is wealth redistribution.
laker1963: Seems like a strange thing to say. You live in a country where people DIE for the benefit of a few elites and yet you claim those same people would not WORK for the benfit of the masses. I think they already do. Whether or not they are actually achieving what they believe they are is another issue. Funny how advocates of the free enterprize system believe that government should NOT get involved and that the private sector should run the economy. So why are the PEOPLE being asked to pay for these bailout packages that are turning up all over the world. Why are the rich folk, and or corporations like Mobile Oil (just reported $14.8 BILLION in 3rd quarter profits) not ponying up to the bar and offering to bail the system out? All of a suden free enterprise looks suspiciously like a social system. Corporate Welfare seems to be OK... help bail out the banks so they can continue to throw people out of their homes. !
phobicsquirrel:I'm not sure if Obama's tax plan will work, or if it will increase the economy, but I'm sure it will help, not make things worse. He already has promised to crack down on imports, raise exports, and keep jobs here (which for some reason makes sense...?). Also for some crazy reason he wants the US to raise production of products to export!