I'll also throw this out -- if two cigars are sitting next to each other, or one on top of the other -- you've not got a situation where it's cigar touching cellophane touching cellophane touching another cigar. Perhaps it is possible for the oils exchange in this manner, and not strictly through the air.

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A. De Mello:

There is not a single moment in your life when you do not have everything that you need to be happy.

Thats in my line of thought duty. As well as the curiousity as to whether or not oils can and or do transfer through the air, idk?!?

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CONSULTING:
If you're not a part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.

My guess is that the fragrance does transfer, and the logic is simple. When you are smelling something, you are actually sensing tiny particles of the matter that is being smelled. For example, when you smell a dog turd, that is because microscopic turd particles have made their way to the sensory receptors in your nose. Therefore, these same particles could make their way to a neighboring cigar, or one on the other side of the humidor. Considering the nose is the primary organ we use for taste, it would then become easy to see how storing two different cigars together could cause their individual tastes to slowly blend over time.

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A. De Mello:

There is not a single moment in your life when you do not have everything that you need to be happy.

dutyje:

My guess is that the fragrance does transfer, and the logic is simple. When you are smelling something, you are actually sensing tiny particles of the matter that is being smelled. For example, when you smell a dog turd, that is because microscopic turd particles have made their way to the sensory receptors in your nose. Therefore, these same particles could make their way to a neighboring cigar, or one on the other side of the humidor. Considering the nose is the primary organ we use for taste, it would then become easy to see how storing two different cigars together could cause their individual tastes to slowly blend over time.

Dude I knew we were keeping you around for a good reason! I like it, its scientific and everything.

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CONSULTING:
If you're not a part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.

madurofan:

Hmm we need urbs opinion here. I want to know if the gases would be the same. I'm also going to experiment with oil through cello deal. I believe oil can and is transfered through cello.

My test will be this, tell me if you disagree. I going to drop a few drops of baby oil onto the inside of a cello wrapper and set it on top of a paper towel and give it some time. If the paper towel becomes oily we can assume that oil transfers through cello.

even two drops of oil would be far more oil than any cigar has in the entire stick... even if you pressed it for oil extraction. the way to test this is to take an oily cigar thats still in the cello and set it on top of some news paper (all of this in a zip loc) let it sit there for many many weeks. if there is an oil stain on the paper then you may have a more accurate result. However... this may not be accurate. why? news paper is so obsorbant that it may draw out some of the oils when a cigar would not. and if you want to get real hard core about it you would have to have TWO layers of cellophane... one for each cigar. i still think that though you can smell a cigar (and i understand what smell is) the amount of particals will make no difference. Its like adding a pinch salt to a cake. there is so little that the salt is not noticed in it when its being consumed.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

madurofan:

Hmm we need urbs opinion here. I want to know if the gases would be the same. I'm also going to experiment with oil through cello deal. I believe oil can and is transfered through cello.

My test will be this, tell me if you disagree. I going to drop a few drops of baby oil onto the inside of a cello wrapper and set it on top of a paper towel and give it some time. If the paper towel becomes oily we can assume that oil transfers through cello.

My name having been invoked, I'll say I don't think this test is going to tell you much. Baby oil is basically lightweight mineral oil, which is a fairly small, simple molecule. The oils in a cigar, presumably, are much larger and more complex molecules. Baby oil might go through the cello even though tobacco oils wouldn't.

Nonetheless, if cello is as porous as everyone seems to be saying, I would expect the oils in a cigar to pass through it. I can't think of any reason why cellophane would be selectively permeable. Selective permeability is a pretty complex phenomenon, requiring a pretty complex membrane. I just don't think cello is. So basically, it all comes down to the size of the pores in cello, and my guess is they're big enough to let tobacco oils through.

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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

well cello is pores atleast i believe. but i would think when the oils crystallize on the cello it would help keep those oils and aromas in. sorry just a random thought

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If you are going through hell, keep going.
Winston Churchill

i could make an argument that all of this is a moot point.

why?
i would venture to say that i have a fairly refined Pallate. Based off of that; Im not sure i could taste the difference between a box aged cigar and a cigar that was aged as a single. at what point does it become "oh yeah! well, my cigar can beat up YOUR cigar" the fact remains that regardless of what cigars are next to it while it ages, many cigars that have been in propper conditions for years on end will be mellower, smoother, and more refined than many that are not. In the initial post of this thread it was also mentioned that some cigars do not age well, therefore ageing them is pointless.

what will the cello/oil experament tell us? that cello is porus? that there is a chance that some minute amount of oil frome one cigar may get on another cigar if it spends years next to it?

it wont tell us if it does, in fact, effect the flavor. It also wont tell us if we care.

I, for one, dont htink it will effect the flavor, nor do i care.


...nor do i have the rescources to figure it out.
most of us never will. Unless you are the Capt and have a walk in humi built into the house and/or go through several hundred (maybe 600-800) cigars a year, we will never have the experiance to make this call. I can barely even fathom the amount of refinement that a palate would have to have to understand cigars to that level. there are probably less than 500 people in the world that would understand the miniscule difference in taste that we are talking about. the odds are agains anyone on this forum being able to.


now that ive said all that i have two more comments.

1)now that ive typed all this out i bet some cigar GURU will come by and give a simple one sentence answer to this debate and nobody will be able to refute it
AND...
2)I would still like to conduct the experament like i described:
an oily cigar in the cello and a bit of news paper also covered in cello resting next to eachother for months on end to see if there is transfer of cigar oils.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

kuzi16:

madurofan:

Hmm we need urbs opinion here. I want to know if the gases would be the same. I'm also going to experiment with oil through cello deal. I believe oil can and is transfered through cello.

My test will be this, tell me if you disagree. I going to drop a few drops of baby oil onto the inside of a cello wrapper and set it on top of a paper towel and give it some time. If the paper towel becomes oily we can assume that oil transfers through cello.

even two drops of oil would be far more oil than any cigar has in the entire stick... even if you pressed it for oil extraction. the way to test this is to take an oily cigar thats still in the cello and set it on top of some news paper (all of this in a zip loc) let it sit there for many many weeks. if there is an oil stain on the paper then you may have a more accurate result. However... this may not be accurate. why? news paper is so obsorbant that it may draw out some of the oils when a cigar would not. and if you want to get real hard core about it you would have to have TWO layers of cellophane... one for each cigar. i still think that though you can smell a cigar (and i understand what smell is) the amount of particals will make no difference. Its like adding a pinch salt to a cake. there is so little that the salt is not noticed in it when its being consumed.

I like the cake analogy. I unscientifically feel this is probably the case. To small for it to be noticeable, but I have been wrong before. I like this discussion though. Really get you thinking.

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'The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan

I had to go back to the original post, and re-read, and read, and read, and read again. This post will only include non-Cuban cigars, as this seems to be what we are talking about. Here are my thoughts, and actual aging trials I have done. I have probably 40 plus boxes right now that are atleast 3 years old. At one time I had close to 70, but as I have said before, I had to sell alot. I have probably close to 400 loose sticks, which I will not even bring into this post. I have noticed some cigars brands are ready to smoke out of the box. But VERY few. Some benefit from a month, some 6, some years. I have had some sticks which I have aged past their prime, and I was devistated by doing this. Trial and error. As I have said before, if I like a certain cigar, I will buy a box or so, and start to age them. To me, little happens the first year. After that, I will smoke one, usually every 5-6 months, as aging is a VERY slow process. Once I find it is coming around, such as loosing that amonia smell from the fermentation process, finish is rounding out and not sharp, loosing the bite, and the flavors marry vs. fighting each other for center stage on the palate. Do I think cigar singles will transfuse flavors with each other? Not enough to notice. Some cigars I have aged PAST their prime are, Griffin's limited Edition, Partagas Decades, LaAurora Sapphires, and a few others I don't remember at this time. For those who think I am full of it, and some of you may, whom ever I sent the Gurkha Legend to from 2005 or 2006 (don't remeber the exact one I sent you) smoke it with a Legend off the shelf. You'll be pleasantly suprised. Cigars that have benefited: Padron 1926 #6 Maduro from 2004. These cigars are unbelievable. I have only smoked two out of the box, because I know once they are gone, they are gone for good. Another is the original blend of the VSG. Phenominal cigar now. Most Gurkha's are great with a few years on them. I have a few boxes of the old Bolivar blend aging from 1993, and it's nothing like the original. OpusX, I have a box from about 8 years ago, but since I have no date, it's hard to tell. Fuente Anejo Sharks, totally different cigar, one of my favorites. Last, a box of Fuente Best Seller Hemingway's from 2003. For those who want to taste a REAL aged Cameroon, this cigar really shows what a Cameroon is supposed to taste like, without the filler/binder overriding it. So we can debate this all day long if we have no baseline to compare to. I do, and this is what I have found from it, first hand. Other cigars I know will be good in a few years is the Nub, and the 3 Siglos. The Nub is too sharp, and too young. Some will disagree, but until any of us smoke an aged one, we won't know. The 3 Siglo's will be one of the best cigars to come, and I won't be suprised if it makes it in CA's top 25 cigars of the year. Thats why I plan on ordering a few boxes, and I would urge you to do the same. If you don't like them after aging, I will gladly buy them from you.

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"The Grouse Whisperer"

you sent me the gurkha legend. its from 4-06. i kinda got confused about what you were saying at that point, if you could clarify: were you saying the legend ages well or was past its prime ?
i have recently smoked a legend that was less than a year old, it was a perfecto so im not sure the comparison will be spot on. I also have a legend perfecto from 10-06 in my humidor. that may be more apples to apples than the toro to perfecto.

I too have noticed that gurkhas age well. None of mine have been "box aged." I still thought they were great.

you said it all right here:

Capt:

Do I think cigar singles will transfuse flavors with each other? Not enough to notice.

im sure we can (and will) still discuss this more.

Capt, as always, you are a wonderful resource to have around. I always look forward to you joining a thread.

back on topic. I may do the cigar oil cello experament. any sugestions on an inexpensive, oily, cigar that i wont feel bad leaving out of the humi for (potentially) forever?

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

ok i have two legend perfectos should i age them both?

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If you are going through hell, keep going.
Winston Churchill

I'm no expert and don't have the patience/income to support any experiments that last more than a couple days, let alone a couple years, but what I think about aging is it depends on the situation you have.

My big debate is what tastes good now, for most of my cigars would be smoked right away for I can't buy enough to outrun my smoking habit. If it DOES taste good now, then I may think about a box, but it has to be a very F'in tasty cigar!

Long story short, Right now I'm not aging my cigars, so I don't care if there is a cigar orgy going on in my humidor right now, they'll all get what's comin' to them soon enough! (p.s. wouldn't be the first time I've broken up an orgy :-/)

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Mr. Powers I got a Viagra stuck in my throat and I've had a Stiff Neck all day

i never age all of a cigar that i have. age one. smoke the other.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

DiasFlak:

ok i have two legend perfectos should i age them both?

Nope, you have to shred the cigars and shove the tobacco inside the Cello of other cigars you own, that way you can be the variable in our little aging test

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Mr. Powers I got a Viagra stuck in my throat and I've had a Stiff Neck all day