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Is America a Democracy?

Last post 10-19-2009, 8:19 PM by stephen_hannibal. 37 replies.
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  • Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 8:47 AM

    If you asked this question, I bet 99.9% of people would whole heartily tell you YES! But just ask yourself one question, where does the word "Democracy" appear in our Constitution? To save you some time, I will go ahead and tell you. It Doesn't. I guess the question today should be is what is America TODAY?
    Are we a Republic like for forefathers envisioned? Or are we moving towards something else? People would probably say right now we are moving towards the Left, Socialism , Communism. People on the Left have at times, said we are moving too far right towards FASCISM. But in actuality, Socailism, Fascism, Communisim, Stateism, Nazism, Dictatorships are all factions of the Left. Instead of thinking of Socialism & Communism (LEFT) vs FASCISM & Stateism (Right) you have to think of it this way: on the Left - you have Total control of everything by the Government. On the Right- There is no Government control over anyting- in other words ANARCHY.

    Our forefathers designed our Constitution to fall around right of the Center. Which should limit Government to protecting the Rights of People. So what is America today? Democracy- ruled by Majority, Oligarchy- Ruled by a group (which is most common these days), or Republic- Ruled by law.
    "Long ashes my friends"
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 10:33 AM

    I would say that even though we are creating ever more socialized systems that are government run we are still definitively a Republic. We have a small group of elected leaders that contain the power to govern the masses (hopefully in our best interests). We have the power to elect replacements for these representatives or even impeach them before the next elections if they deserve, but still we return to the masses being governed by a small group of powerful officials...a Republic.

    Because of the way our government is designed with sovergn states with their own governments and elected officials and the union of states with under a federal system of elected officials there are so many branches of power that we'll never truly experience socialism, facism, communism, etc. because it is constitutionally impossible. Socialist type policies, you could think of it that way, but true socialism, no.
    humidor inventory is in my bio
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 11:12 AM

    it seems that we are a republic that has started the slide to democracy...and that would probably end (in a very long turn over) in some sort of oligarchy.

    this slide was predicted (with some stipulations) by Franklin ("a republic ma'am, if you can keep it") and Jefferson ("Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. " and "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. ")

    ...and of Democracy:
    Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.
    -John Adams
    Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 11:13 AM

    bigharpoon:
    I would say that even though we are creating ever more socialized systems that are government run we are still definitively a Republic. We have a small group of elected leaders that contain the power to govern the masses (hopefully in our best interests). We have the power to elect replacements for these representatives or even impeach them before the next elections if they deserve, but still we return to the masses being governed by a small group of powerful officials...a Republic.

    a republic is a state that is ruled by law...

    however, the government does not follow the law. Politicians are always looking for ways around the Constitution or other ways to be Above the law. that is hardly a republic.

    Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 2:31 PM

    kuzi16:
    bigharpoon:
    I would say that even though we are creating ever more socialized systems that are government run we are still definitively a Republic. We have a small group of elected leaders that contain the power to govern the masses (hopefully in our best interests). We have the power to elect replacements for these representatives or even impeach them before the next elections if they deserve, but still we return to the masses being governed by a small group of powerful officials...a Republic.

    a republic is a state that is ruled by law...

    however, the government does not follow the law. Politicians are always looking for ways around the Constitution or other ways to be Above the law. that is hardly a republic.
    Then isn't it our right (granted by the Constitution) to basically take this government and start over? Who was it...Jefferson? That said a "Revolution every now and then...is a good thing". And no...I'm some crazy gun nut.
    "Long ashes my friends"
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 2:53 PM

    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ”
    — Thomas Jefferson
    Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 3:27 PM

    I can't believe I found a video that explains what I was trying to say this well, take a look. link
    "Long ashes my friends"
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 4:19 PM

    i think i posted that very video a while ago. i couldnt find it again myself. i wanted you to see it.
    Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 5:55 PM

    Krieg:
    If you asked this question, I bet 99.9% of people would whole heartily tell you YES! But just ask yourself one question, where does the word "Democracy" appear in our Constitution? To save you some time, I will go ahead and tell you. It Doesn't. I guess the question today should be is what is America TODAY?
    Are we a Republic like for forefathers envisioned? Or are we moving towards something else? People would probably say right now we are moving towards the Left, Socialism , Communism. People on the Left have at times, said we are moving too far right towards FASCISM. But in actuality, Socailism, Fascism, Communisim, Stateism, Nazism, Dictatorships are all factions of the Left. Instead of thinking of Socialism & Communism (LEFT) vs FASCISM & Stateism (Right) you have to think of it this way: on the Left - you have Total control of everything by the Government. On the Right- There is no Government control over anyting- in other words ANARCHY.

    Our forefathers designed our Constitution to fall around right of the Center. Which should limit Government to protecting the Rights of People. So what is America today? Democracy- ruled by Majority, Oligarchy- Ruled by a group (which is most common these days), or Republic- Ruled by law.
    very well stated and a good question. I remember seeing a film on this very thing, for the life of me can't remember what it was, but it was a very good film. I would say that we have become a corporate form of democracy perhaps even a laissi faire capitalist state more than a democratic republic. One could even say Oligarchy. The people don't really elect their reps anymore, I mean if you really dig into it. the money is the objective and very few people actually are in the game for the real change that will positively effect their country. Taking the money out of the polictical system and moving more towards the republic we were founded on then I would believe the people would really elect their reps. Greed has overthrown this country and it did the same thing to ROME which is one of the closest examples of where our country has gone. By no means was the country fantastic when it was founded, I mean slaves, women were below men but over the years it seemed as though there was a real surge in development, then a crash. People have always managed to rise above others but it was more on true courage and determination and luck (sticking gold or oil) but the line was pretty much straight. After WWII was this really present, but it soon went away. When laws are created or even cut to favor one group (like now with large corporations) then the commons are fighting a losing battle. The rule of law has been very corrupted in this country and almost to the point that law only contains to the commons or the poor. How many rich well placed people have had the hand of the law on them? Well in recent history not many. I mean the heads of the last administration, the federal reserve, military contractors, heads of the insurance companies... In a real country of laws, if you break the law then you pay the price which should be done without any favor. This is far from what we have become.
    FAV. Smokes are in my Profile....Reviews
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-14-2009, 5:59 PM

    kuzi16:
    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ”
    — Thomas Jefferson
    Most of them don't really do any good, usually more harm than good. And that statement was very true of the world were he came from. England and our state were two different animals. War and carnage are usually the acts of people that lack morality and wisdom. If people had these 2 things then war and carnage would not exist. Going back to the civial war, which side would you stand on? I ask this of everyone. I mean which side better depicts who you are? I know the North had the better intentions for the country, and it grew to more of a "free" state because of it over the years.
    FAV. Smokes are in my Profile....Reviews
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-15-2009, 12:21 PM

    phobicsquirrel:
    Krieg:
    If you asked this question, I bet 99.9% of people would whole heartily tell you YES! But just ask yourself one question, where does the word "Democracy" appear in our Constitution? To save you some time, I will go ahead and tell you. It Doesn't. I guess the question today should be is what is America TODAY?
    Are we a Republic like for forefathers envisioned? Or are we moving towards something else? People would probably say right now we are moving towards the Left, Socialism , Communism. People on the Left have at times, said we are moving too far right towards FASCISM. But in actuality, Socailism, Fascism, Communisim, Stateism, Nazism, Dictatorships are all factions of the Left. Instead of thinking of Socialism & Communism (LEFT) vs FASCISM & Stateism (Right) you have to think of it this way: on the Left - you have Total control of everything by the Government. On the Right- There is no Government control over anyting- in other words ANARCHY.

    Our forefathers designed our Constitution to fall around right of the Center. Which should limit Government to protecting the Rights of People. So what is America today? Democracy- ruled by Majority, Oligarchy- Ruled by a group (which is most common these days), or Republic- Ruled by law.
    very well stated and a good question. I remember seeing a film on this very thing, for the life of me can't remember what it was, but it was a very good film. I would say that we have become a corporate form of democracy perhaps even a laissi faire capitalist state more than a democratic republic. One could even say Oligarchy. The people don't really elect their reps anymore, I mean if you really dig into it. the money is the objective and very few people actually are in the game for the real change that will positively effect their country. Taking the money out of the polictical system and moving more towards the republic we were founded on then I would believe the people would really elect their reps. Greed has overthrown this country and it did the same thing to ROME which is one of the closest examples of where our country has gone. By no means was the country fantastic when it was founded, I mean slaves, women were below men but over the years it seemed as though there was a real surge in development, then a crash. People have always managed to rise above others but it was more on true courage and determination and luck (sticking gold or oil) but the line was pretty much straight. After WWII was this really present, but it soon went away. When laws are created or even cut to favor one group (like now with large corporations) then the commons are fighting a losing battle. The rule of law has been very corrupted in this country and almost to the point that law only contains to the commons or the poor. How many rich well placed people have had the hand of the law on them? Well in recent history not many. I mean the heads of the last administration, the federal reserve, military contractors, heads of the insurance companies... In a real country of laws, if you break the law then you pay the price which should be done without any favor. This is far from what we have become.
    I would have to agree with you to a degree. And that being that I think America is definitely moving away from a Republic. There are numerous factors because of this, Education...being a big part. I think Ameica is moving toward an Oligarchy. This reason is because of the Supreme Court. If Obama keeps appointing activist judges who CREATE policy from the bench, rather than enforce/interpret our Constitution, then there isn't much hope for our country. Only recourse I see is a revolution. (they're are many types of revolutions).
    "Long ashes my friends"
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-15-2009, 12:31 PM

    phobicsquirrel:
    Going back to the civial war, which side would you stand on? I ask this of everyone. I mean which side better depicts who you are?
    are you honestly asking me this question?

    if you dont know the answer, i dont know why i have been bothering debating with you; it would be quite clear that you have not paid a bit of attention to the point of my rants and rambles.
    Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-15-2009, 12:43 PM

    All I know is that the founding fathers would tar and feather most of our current gov't officials.  The things that the gov't gets involved in, and you and I are taxed for, have gone way beyond reason.

    Our local officals were in the paper the other day bragging about the larger rooms, work out facilities and web access...........for our prisoners.

     

  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-15-2009, 1:41 PM

    Theedge:

    All I know is that the founding fathers would tar and feather most of our current gov't officials.  The things that the gov't gets involved in, and you and I are taxed for, have gone way beyond reason.

    Our local officals were in the paper the other day bragging about the larger rooms, work out facilities and web access...........for our prisoners.

     

    Our founding fathers would start a new revolution if they saw what was happening today.
  • Re: Is America a Democracy?

     10-15-2009, 1:58 PM

    • Joined on 09-11-2009
    • Capital Wasteland
    • Posts 716
    • Top 50 Contributor
    Now it's a lopsided Democracy.... which is going to be it's down fall.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
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