kuzi16:

i hear the anejo ages well. ya may want to let it sit.

Kuzi, I was going to post this in scram's thread but figured I'd start another for this topic. I listened to an interesting theory the other day from an old timer who used to manage one of the B&Ms I frequent, now he's retired and just hangs out. This guy is actually quite accomplished for a B&M manager and has consulted for companies like Camacho and A. Fuente, as well as completely blending the house cigars for a number of B&Ms in the southeast including the one he used to manage, none of which are mixed filler(he pointed this out emphatically). Anyways this theory is kind of what I have always subscribed to but explained better and with some additional things I hadn't thought of.

Basically its this ...
Box aging, taking an entire closed box of cigars and letting them sit only with themselves, is aging a cigar. This is taking the cigar as the blender intended it to be and letting it further marry with the tobaccos that the blender intended for it to marry with. Now while the blender most likely did not blend the cigar with the idea of letting it set for years, if he is a good he took this into considersation and has a good understanding of what the different tobaccos he used will do as they "age". However, no matter what your opinion the fact is you aren't always improving the cigar. The aging process is CHANGING the cigar, sometimes for the better sometimes for worse, either way this is not the cigar the blender tasted. Those who only smoke "aged" cigars could and probably are missing out on a lot of cigars. Many mild cigars are at their best at a young age and many Full-bodied cigars lose body and spice as they age. Either way by not smoking a "fresh" cigar you are not sure what it is you are missing.

Now on to humidor aging, this is placing singles into a humidor full of other cigars of different brands, bodies, vitolas, and types of tobacco. This is not aging a cigar, this is in every sense CHANGING the cigar. When a blender creates a cigar he may take into consideration what a cigar could become after years of marrying with itself but there is no way he could take into consideration what a cigar will become when it marries with random other cigars that are typically changing. Cigars draw from their enviroment, this is the entire theory behind the Acid line of cigars which are allowed to naturally absorb their flavorings instead of being dipped. Cigars also emit oils and gases. If you have cigars drawing oil and gases from other cigars you are changing the cigar in ways the blender never intended or anticipated. What this "aged" cigar has become is in no way what the blender had in mind. Now this isn't to say that "aging" this way is wrong or that you are ruining the cigars its just that you can't age a cigar like this and tell someone else that cigar does or does not age well. It could be that brand x mixed with brands y and z for 2 years creates a pretty good cigar but brand x mixed with brands a and b for 2 years creates a bitter cigar.
Just some food for thought ...

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I don't wanna hold a job down if its just to make ends meet. I prefer rapid rise and faster falls, I wanna die the American dream.
~~ Josh Martinez

Wow - very insightful post, Maddy. I can see what the gentleman was talking about. Thanks for posting that, bud!

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"Sometimes I think that the surest sign that intelligent life exsists in outer space is that none of it has tried to contact us yet."

Calvin, speaking to Hobbes

Interesting, maddy.. and it all makes perfect sense. Now, QUICK everybody... immediately smoke down one of everything in your inventory that you haven't tried yet! Otherwise you'll never know the true essence of that cigar! For me, that means I've got to get out and smoke 7 cigars.

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My foot hurts

I did as well smoke thats why I wanted to throw it out there for everyone.

dutyje:

Interesting, maddy.. and it all makes perfect sense. Now, QUICK everybody... immediately smoke down one of everything in your inventory that you haven't tried yet! Otherwise you'll never know the true essence of that cigar! For me, that means I've got to get out and smoke 7 cigars.

Such a smart-ass don't make me come down there a slap you upside the head right in front of Water Pillows.

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I don't wanna hold a job down if its just to make ends meet. I prefer rapid rise and faster falls, I wanna die the American dream.
~~ Josh Martinez

madurofan:

in front of Water Pillows.

LMAO!!

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My foot hurts

i do see what you are saying. but here again is a thought...
if cigars picked up flavor from other cigars so easily, why wouldnt we just put our cheaper mild smokes next to some high end premiums to soak up some of the flavor? it doesnt work like that. ...especially with the cellophane on. yes i agree that they do get draw from the atmosphere and what is around them, but what is around them is air. the tobaccos in my humidor dont touch eachother. its all natural. Its not the theory of ACID at all. Acid doesnt dip them, they let it defuse into them via the air. However, there is a super concentrate of that flavor in the air.

of course im again talking out of my ass. Im not a pro, but i am a thinker and in my head this makes sence. If no tobaccos are actually toutching and oils dont evaporate, why would it matter if they are box aged or not? (though i would prefer that, mainly because of quantity but thats a different story)

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

kuzi16:

i do see what you are saying. but here again is a thought...
if cigars picked up flavor from other cigars so easily, why wouldnt we just put our cheaper mild smokes next to some high end premiums to soak up some of the flavor? it doesnt work like that. ...especially with the cellophane on. yes i agree that they do get draw from the atmosphere and what is around them, but what is around them is air. the tobaccos in my humidor dont touch eachother. its all natural. Its not the theory of ACID at all. Acid doesnt dip them, they let it defuse into them via the air. However, there is a super concentrate of that flavor in the air.

of course im again talking out of my ass. Im not a pro, but i am a thinker and in my head this makes sence. If no tobaccos are actually toutching and oils dont evaporate, why would it matter if they are box aged or not? (though i would prefer that, mainly because of quantity but thats a different story)

Man I've been waiting on your response to this all day, I genuinely wanted your take. Now I'll preface what I'm about to say with this is my opinion not from the sage's mouth.
Its not that the cigars are picking up other cigars flavors, you'd be right( if that was the case I'd buy a couple Tat cojonu 2003's and stick all my crappy sticks in with them) its the result of when these different tobacco marry(my understanding of marrying is the exchanges of gases and oils). The fact that they are in cello is irrelevant, as you and I have both stated cello is not air nor water tight and allows for the exchange of air and moisture and most likely oils.
The Acid theory is relevant here though in a humidor these gases would be airborne. Its the same theory but not the same concentration that is true.

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I don't wanna hold a job down if its just to make ends meet. I prefer rapid rise and faster falls, I wanna die the American dream.
~~ Josh Martinez

the difference here is that in an acid its all flavored gass. in a non-flavored cigar its all tobacco gas. regardless of what kind of tobacco it is as long as it isnt flavored the gass will all be about the same. also, we dont get taste in a cigar from the ambiant air. we get it from the oils in a cigar.

no oil transfer, no flavor transfer.

i do like the thought of aging being a "change" rather than anything else. its a great way to think about it.

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Kuzi's cigar catalog blending 101 developing your palate

Hmm we need urbs opinion here. I want to know if the gases would be the same. I'm also going to experiment with oil through cello deal. I believe oil can and is transfered through cello.

My test will be this, tell me if you disagree. I going to drop a few drops of baby oil onto the inside of a cello wrapper and set it on top of a paper towel and give it some time. If the paper towel becomes oily we can assume that oil transfers through cello.

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I don't wanna hold a job down if its just to make ends meet. I prefer rapid rise and faster falls, I wanna die the American dream.
~~ Josh Martinez

I'm not pretending to know here as I sure as hell am not a scientist but that made me think.

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I don't wanna hold a job down if its just to make ends meet. I prefer rapid rise and faster falls, I wanna die the American dream.
~~ Josh Martinez

i like this nice thread !

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If you are going through hell, keep going.
Winston Churchill

The reason you wouldn't age your cheap mild sticks with your super-premiums is that you'd be ruining the super-premiums at the same time you'd be adding a mild improvement to the cheapos. I don't think it's intended to mean that the flavor of one would change into the other, I think it's meant to say that there will be some unknown impact to the flavor. This impact is out of the control of the blender, and therefore changes the experience beyond what was intended.

Just throwing it out there. You two each have more knowledge about this in an eyelash than I've got in my entirety.

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My foot hurts

madurofan:

Hmm we need urbs opinion here. I want to know if the gases would be the same. I'm also going to experiment with oil through cello deal. I believe oil can and is transfered through cello.

My test will be this, tell me if you disagree. I going to drop a few drops of baby oil onto the inside of a cello wrapper and set it on top of a paper towel and give it some time. If the paper towel becomes oily we can assume that oil transfers through cello.

thats a good test but you wont want alot of oils cause! the bottom of the wrapper isint water proof at the bottom if you know what i mean

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If you are going through hell, keep going.
Winston Churchill

dutyje:

The reason you wouldn't age your cheap mild sticks with your super-premiums is that you'd be ruining the super-premiums at the same time you'd be adding a mild improvement to the cheapos. I don't think it's intended to mean that the flavor of one would change into the other, I think it's meant to say that there will be some unknown impact to the flavor. This impact is out of the control of the blender, and therefore changes the experience beyond what was intended.

Just throwing it out there. You two each have more knowledge about this in an eyelash than I've got in my entirety.

I like it duty good points. I don't know about the knowledge bud, you do a pretty good job yourself.

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I don't wanna hold a job down if its just to make ends meet. I prefer rapid rise and faster falls, I wanna die the American dream.
~~ Josh Martinez

DiasFlak:

madurofan:

Hmm we need urbs opinion here. I want to know if the gases would be the same. I'm also going to experiment with oil through cello deal. I believe oil can and is transfered through cello.

My test will be this, tell me if you disagree. I going to drop a few drops of baby oil onto the inside of a cello wrapper and set it on top of a paper towel and give it some time. If the paper towel becomes oily we can assume that oil transfers through cello.

thats a good test but you wont want alot of oils cause! the bottom of the wrapper isint water proof at the bottom if you know what i mean

Just a few drops dias

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I don't wanna hold a job down if its just to make ends meet. I prefer rapid rise and faster falls, I wanna die the American dream.
~~ Josh Martinez